0,303" drill round with a long bullet


#1

One of these drill rounds is a standard ‘K’ marked example with a chromed case, a blind pocket and three red painted flutes. The overall length is 3,02".

The other has a dull plated case with a blind pocket and the flutes show no sign of red paint. What makes it unusual is that the overall length is 3,195" which is over-length for a service round. the bullet has a knurled cannelure to which the bullet is seated. Despite the extra length the round will chamber with a closed bolt in a 1953 made No4.

In both cases the bullet diameter is 0,312"

Can anyone explain the variation and for whom were these ‘K’ marked drill rounds produced?

Happy collecting, Peter


#2

Peter - do both those rounds simply have the “K” headstamp?

I have long been fascinated by the story behind these Kynoch drill rounds. Superficially they are Drill D Mark VI, but have a diferent sort of lacquer in the flutes, almost like nail varnish. Also, there are two different headstamps, one with the “K” at twelve o’clock and the other at six.

Then there are the type with the long bullet. Mine is chrome/nickel plated whilst yours is plain brass.

Finally there is a really strange version with a spring loaded tip to the bullet. I wonder whether this is designed to reproduce a feed stoppage in machine guns, as the collapsing tip would prevent the round feeding cleanly into the chamber?

A mystery that I would dearly like to get to the bottom of!

Regards
TonyE


#3

I have also seen a few of these with GMCS bullets. Mine has a GMCS bullet. My example also has the conventional red paint in the flutes.


#4

Most mysterious.

I’ve never seen the ones with a translucent red lacquer, mine has the standard red paint found on most types of drill round in British service, good and opaque it is too.

Also, your two have stab crimps whilst my shiny one has the case coned onto the bullet.

My shiny one has the ‘K’ at 12 o’clock whilst the dull one has it at 6 o’clock

The red lacquer looks to be similar to that found on the frosted chrome 7,92 BESA drill rounds marked ‘K53 D3’.

Peter


#5

I can think of no other reason for the long bullet except Tony’s suggestion of a simulated stoppage drill but I am not familiar with the various mechanisms to be sure exactly how or where it could be employed.

The red paint on most drill rounds I had always assumed was Post Office red paint which in those days probably had a Government part number. The rather more translucent “plum coloured” lacquer does looks like nail varnish. Are you sure it is contemporary Tony?


#6

There were a number of British rounds in service use, both live and drill, that were designed to produce stoppages in MGs for training purposes.

The ones that spring to mind are the .303 Mark VII R.C. (reduced charge) designed to give a No.1 stoppage in Vickers guns, the .303 “Purple Label” which gave a misfeed and the 7.92mm Besa “Cartridges , Instruction, Stoppage” Marks I and II.

If I am right and these Kynoch drills did serve that purpose then I suspect they were a private venture for export, as I have found no trace of any such rounds in British service.

Regards
TonyE


#7

I have doubts about some of the “K” headstamped drill rounds that I come across. I have seen more empty cases than loaded cartridges and some of the loaded ones were a bit short for .303" because they had .30" calibre bullets loaded, almost certainly done to enhance sales.

A long one that I was offered was a standard Mark VII bullet, with the earlier low cannelure, loaded with this groove at the case mouth. In the right light it was possible to see where the original casemouth came up to, about a quarter of an inch higher up the bullet! That one was certainly a fake.

gravelbelly

edited for spelling only


#8

Gravelbelly - on the one in the picture that started this thread, right in the “highlight” going down the center of the bullet, you can see what appears due to the highlight as a “dash” or short straight line parallel to the case mouth. I believe this is probably a mark from an original crimp on the bullet. When I measured up from the mark to the tip of the bullet, as the cartridge appears on the screen on my computer, it was about 2-1/4", approximately the same as measuring the comparison round’s bullet, in the same picture, from the case mouth to the tip.

I think this is another case exactly like the one you describe, a long, low cannelure bullet seated incorrectly. I could be wrong. I am going by just what I can see in the picture on my screen, which I admit is dangerous. Better to have the round in hand, of course.

Just thought I would point it out. Their may well be contrary opinions on that little mark (which may go completely around the bullet - can’t tell from the shadows on each side of the “highlight.”


#9

John
The mark you point out does look like a crimp mark. However, just to play Devil’s avocate for a moment. That form of crimping usually goes in quite deep into the bullet leaving a sizable dent into which the case is pushed to grip. This mark would not be deep enough to hold the bullet in tightly

So size and position looks good but depth doesn’t. I don’t know, but its a good observation. Well spotted, it adds to the mystery. Salvaged bullet from a factory reject recycled? or faked? It still doesn’t answer why the longer than standard dummys turn up. Until this thread I didn’t know they did.

If the theory of it being a jamming round holds good it could be a scar from the jamming process. It doesnt look quite straight. All just ideas.


#10

I can’t see the ‘long’ round being used to create stoppages given that it will chamber comfortable in a No4. There’s no sign of witness marks on the bullet from it touching the rifling in the leade and it fed without problem from the magazine.

I’ve had a look in Labbett & Mead’s tome on the 0,303" and can find no mention of bullets with a knurled cannelure such as the one on the ‘long’ bullet above. The diameter is 0,312" which points towards a Service bullet …

Maybe I’ll get a duplicate someday and can pull the bullet.

Happy collecting, Peter


#11

[quote=“enfield56”]I can’t see the ‘long’ round being used to create stoppages given that it will chamber comfortable in a No4. There’s no sign of witness marks on the bullet from it touching the rifling in the leade and it fed without problem from the magazine.

I’ve had a look in Labbett & Mead’s tome on the 0,303" and can find no mention of bullets with a knurled cannelure such as the one on the ‘long’ bullet above. The diameter is 0,312" which points towards a Service bullet …

Maybe I’ll get a duplicate someday and can pull the bullet.

Happy collecting, Peter[/quote]

Peter,

The cannelure may be either smooth or knurled, depending upon the manufacturer, I have seen both types. I have a knurled one sitting in front of me which I pulled from a corroded round. Some bullets were also made with both cannelures, low one for neck stabs and high one for mouth crimp. I have found this variation on fired bullets.

gravelbelly