0.410 Single Ball MK-1-Z P.O.F. 1960 production


#1

POF 1960 production, in 10 round packets, available in the original tin lined/sealed crates. For the SMLE .410 smooth bore rifles. I got a packet at the KCCA cartridge show and it is good/clean collectable material.

dansammo.com/ammo.asp
midwayusa.com/product/650336 … wood-crate


.410 Ball Pakistani Sealed case
#2

I didn’t realise this stuff was made as late as 1960. Others, I hope will come in with more knowledge and authority but my understanding is that it was made to issue to native Indian troops and police who were never allowed ‘real’ rifles and ammunition. Its a throwback to the days of empire. Maybe other countries had it too I don’t know.

The recent terrorist attacks in India produced newsreel footage of local police carrying these SMLEs.

My guess is its Eley fourlong 2 1/2". It will still work but will have spent the last 50 years cooking in some warehouse at temperatures of over 100F. Very little surplus ammo that comes out of India is any good due to storage conditions.

Good collectors fodder though, thanks for letting us know about it


#3

I failed to mention earlier that P.O.F. stands for Pakistan Ordnance Factories, so these were manufactured in Pakistan and not India.

The headstamp on this P.O.F. ammunition is: POF 60 IZ 410

Tony Edwards covers the .410 Inch Musket ammunition on his website “British Military Small Arms Ammo”: sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/-410-musket

A discussion concerning .410 Indian Musket cartridges, here on the forum, can be seen here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10982


#4

Hope some of it makes it down under.


#5

These cartridges do not have the same dimensions as regular .410 Shotshells. They are instead based on an un-necked .303 case. As far as I know, a standard .410 shotshell Won’t chamber in one of the smooth bore SMLEs.


#6













The headstamps all seem to be the same from the few packets I have opened.



#7

Joe, as usual, thanks a lot for posting these pictures.


#8

Fede, thanks…

Now I suppose you would like me to open it and take more pictures, Ha-ha.

Joe

PS: I will open it tomorrow.

Edit: Opened and pictures added.


#9

One online seller is claiming “headstamps will vary” with the .410 ammunition coming from these POF crates.

Has anyone seen any POF cartridges with a date other than “60”, for 1960, coming from these crates or other headstamps?

The same seller shows a cartridge headstamped “K 52 .410” and calls it a POF made cartridge from 1952, which of course it is not but actually a Kynoch loading from 1952

Are there other dates known for POF made .410 Single Ball MK-1-Z ammunition?

PS- Joe, thanks for the crate pictures! I have one like yours that still has the wax seal on the pull rope; like opening a time capsule.


#10

I have seen these cases supplied in packages of 500 (5 x 100) boxes wrapped in brown paper tided with string. The cases supplied within were not primed nor head stamped. Manufactured by Eley-Kynoch at the Witton factory, on the one seen only the top box of the 5 had a label attached to it, at the time the numb nut that unwrapped it never thought to take a photo prior to unwrapping (me). The box would say 1940 to me but I could be wrong.

Note 2 were primed to prove the sizes prior to trying (centre mid left)

Mike.


#11

Brian, I often wonder what this compound is on many British and British influence country crates. It is way too hard to be a wax in my opinion. It seems more like a resin of sorts. lots of different colors I have seen over the years.

joe

PS; I am going to open my crate tonight when a collector friend comes over. We like to smell the inside of freshly opened ammo spam can, we are a real couple of weirdos in that way. Ha-ha. It is like smelling the bouquet from a vintage bottle of wine. Ya, I know, I’m a nut.


#12

Joe,

I think its a type of sealing wax, which is much harder and tougher than say candle wax or paraffin canning wax.

I know what you mean about the distinct smell that comes from a freshly opened tin of ammunition that’s been sealed for decades.

Let us know the date on the headstamp.

Thanks,

Brian


#13

Eightbore,

Interesting box!

Do you have any idea as to who the intended loader/user might be? India (one of the British ordnance factories) or another British colony of that time?

Brian


#14

[quote=“bdgreen”]Eightbore,

Interesting box!

Do you have any idea as to who the intended loader/user might be? India (one of the British ordnance factories) or another British colony of that time?

Brian[/quote]

Brian,

I believe it to have been for export and India has always been one of the most likely places (solely based on the word musket and were it was used) a very weak link but has always been one of the options. The original brown paper package had absolutely no labelling on the out side but the wrapping had written in pen “500 plain cases” no reference to the gauge. It came from an attic of an old gun shop, so I believe them to have been intended for shot loading. Were they redundant stock! not suitable but kept!, we will never know but a nice box.

Mike.


#15

Liberty tree collectors has a nice package deal I just took advantage of - one pack and one loose round. $15 but if you really want it . . .

libertytreecollectors.com/p … ategory=12

Michael


#16

[quote=“glassparman”]Liberty tree collectors has a nice package deal I just took advantage of - one pack and one loose round. $15 but if you really want it . . .

libertytreecollectors.com/p … ategory=12

Michael[/quote]

I have no intention in keeping all that I have. Contact if interested. I can do much, much better on price.

Joe


#17

The Varnish used on British crates and Packs etc is common Shellac ( flakes of the extract of a crustacean shell from the Lagoon of Venice, dissolved in Alcohol, and then used as a stiffening agent for paper, or as a Varnish for fine furniture ( such as Violins, for example…Stradivarius used “Shell-Lac” from Venice to finish his Violins. “French Polishing” is the application of numerous coats of Shellac with rubbing down between coats. Many countries have developed Shellac independently…Japanese Lacquer Ware is Highly prized ( wood coated with thick layers of Polished Shellac)

I Have used it to restore a couple of Siamese/Japanese Modified Arisakas ( which were originally coated with Japanese “Red” Shellac.)

Doc AV


#18

[quote=“DocAV”]The Varnish used on British crates and Packs etc is common Shellac ( flakes of the extract of a crustacean shell from the Lagoon of Venice, dissolved in Alcohol, and then used as a stiffening agent for paper, or as a Varnish for fine furniture ( such as Violins, for example…Stradivarius used “Shell-Lac” from Venice to finish his Violins. “French Polishing” is the application of numerous coats of Shellac with rubbing down between coats. Many countries have developed Shellac independently…Japanese Lacquer Ware is Highly prized ( wood coated with thick layers of Polished Shellac)

I Have used it to restore a couple of Siamese/Japanese Modified Arisakas ( which were originally coated with Japanese “Red” Shellac.)

Doc AV[/quote]
Shellac was adopted for applying labels etc. many years ago because most other “adhesives” were found to be attacked by termites, shellac is very durable.

gravelbelly