10.75x52R I.D Needed


#1

Hoping to identify what I assume would be described as a 10.75x52R. I have found reference to a “Roth Hunting” version of this designation, but dimensions indicate a noticeable bottleneck. This cartridge has a straight taper case with a blunt round nose Ni jacketed hollow point (looks drilled rather than swaged) magnetic bullet which if quickly glanced at looks like a 45-70-500.

Headstamp: H.UTENDOERFFER
NURNBERG
Primer: Flat Cu w/ purple anulus sealer

Bullet Dia. .423"
Neck Dia. .452"
Base Dia. .485"
Rim Dia. .541"
O.A.L. 2.780"
Case Lgth. 2.047"
Rim Thck. .043"

Thanks for any info that can be provided.

Dave


#2

Could it be an european name for an english or american cartridge?European factories made a lot of american or english rounds and sold them with a metric name…

Pivi


#3

I believe your round is a 10.75 x 52 R grundig.This cartridge was made in 4 case lenghts.On the munitionauction website,in the metric rifle page there is the picture of the 48 mm case variation.Like your round it has a FMJ bullet,straight case and is made by H. Unterdoerffer.
If you will not be able to find it,I’ll give you the proper web link by PM

Pivi


#4

Dave -
There are two versions of the 10.75 x 52R cartridge. Your version is the straight wall case introduced by Utendoerffer c1900 for the rifles of C. Grundig of Dresden. It is listed in the RWS/Utendoerffer catalogues from 1908 to 1921. RWS absorbed Utendoerffer in 1889 but continued to use the Utendoerffer h/s until the 1920’s.
As Pivi indicated, this cartridge is known as the 10.75 Grundig and was available in four lengths: 45, 52, 60, and 65. I believe your cartridge has the proprietary Grundig RN SP bullet. If you have access to the 1911 ALFA catologue, it is shown under metal cartridges for rifles with drop barrels. DWM also listed this cartridge as the 10.75 x 52R Dornheim for G.C.Dornheim of Lipstadt, DWM case number 495A.
The bottleneck version of this case is known as the 10.75 x 52R Springer or Mannlicher. It was offered for hunting purposes in the Hirtenberger, Springer, and Roth catalogues, Roth case number 975. Roth has no case number listed for the straight wall case. Several sources state that this cartridge was developed for the Austrian-Hungarian Navy for either a Springer or Mannlicher rifle but this cannot be confirmed, thus the listings for a hunting round.


#5

Hello All,
I have a database listing for the 10.75 x 52R Grundig case that has Roth 593H number assigned to it. Is this right?
I understand that there is also a rimless variation known as the 10.75 x 52 Roth Hunting Rifle. (dimensions below)
inch mm
Caliber/Bullet Diameter: 0.424 10.8
Rim Diameter: 0.492 12.5
Base Diameter: 0.496 12.6
Case Shoulder Diameter: 0.475 12.1
Neck Diameter: 0.450 11.4
Case Length: 2.047 52.0

All my references are packed away so I can’t verify this.

Brian


#6

Dixon, in his two volume work European Sporting Cartridges, says that there is a rimmed and a rimless version of the bottlenecked 10.75 x 52 Mannlicher, as he calls it. Dixon states that there is no catalogue listing or Roth number for the rimless case. However, he has an example of the rimless case with a h/s of GR///*. ???

Dixon goes on to state that Hirtenberger, who had absorbed G.Roth in 1930 continued and expanded the Roth numbering system. Case number 593H nevered appeared in the Roth catalogues but it does appear in the 1931 Hirtenberger catalogue and it is the bottleneck version not the straight wall or Grundig version. The 1939 Hirtenberger catalogue shows the same case and calls it the 10.75 x 52R Springer and uses the case number 975 instead of 593H.
I can find no version of either case in the ealier Roth catalogues.

I suspect that since Hirtenberger used a Roth case number in their catalogues and stated that this was a hunting cartridge, the cartridge became known as the Roth hunting cartridge.

If you have a any other information about this cartridge and its case number, I would be delighted to hear about it.


#7

Thanks JCP.
I have a lot of incorrect data in my database and you helped me to clean it up.

Brian


#8

Thanks Pivi and JCP for the info. Once again, this forum proves to be a fantastic international resource for this less advanced collector.


#9

Hi, I have a 10.75x52R springer rifle as best I can tell the case is based on the 8x50R with a barrel groove to groove of .426 the rifle was made in 1908 there is a story that someone shot a crocidile in the Sudan with a 8x50 and it got away so they came back and ask for a bigger rifle then the Springer company made the 10.75x52R maybe it is just a story but still a god one.


#10

Here’s a picture of three of the four lengths of the 10.75 Grundig, these being the 48, 52, and 65mm. Anyone have an extra 60mm?