10 ga shotshells

I am trying to help someone identify the dates on these and any other info, especially the middle and far right ones. I have little information on these makers. The S&B appears to be a blue paper hull, the Kynoch, brass. The one on the left reads (BAKER & CO 10) and I’ve found it in THE SHOTSHELL IN THE UNITED STATES.

1897 to 1899 for the kynoch if all brass case

Regarding the Baker, is this site of any interest to you for background?


I have a quite light 12 brass case ( 62 mm long) with the same Kynoch headstamp, obviously on my sample there is “12” instead of “10” . Is it form the same period?

Is it of a different dimensional standard than modern 12 gauge shells?

Hello Pivi
Yes it is the same period

If the hstp on all brass case is
"Kynoch’s patent " it is from 1897 to 1899
"Kynoch patent" it is later : 1901 to 1904 .

Do not gorget : when I give a date it means it is 100% sure.
It is based on the documentation I have.
I am not extrapolating.
Therefore it doesn’t mean it was not existing before or after.

For example “Kynoch patent” could exist also in 1911
But I have not the catalogue 1911, therefore I stay on 1901 to 1904

Same thing about "Kynoch’s patent"
I don’t have the 1886, 1889, 1891, 1894 kynoch catalogues (or the ones I have are not complete) therefore I have no proof of existence despite the fact I have an article about all brass patent ctges dated from 1882 (but the hstp is not shown).
Therefore the period should be 1882 to 1897
But I stay on 1897 to 1899 because I have no proof till now.

I prefer to stay on what I have the proof of, than extrapolating.

Regarding the dimensions of your case it is very close than the ones of modern standard.(the modern dimensions are based on the late british dimensions for 12 gauge shells)


Hello Pivi

Somebody read this post and send me a catalogue page

If the hstp on all brass case is
"Kynoch patent" it is : 1901 to 1911 .


Can anyone offer anything on the S&B pinfire shell?

Since a post on Baker shotsheels has arose I have a question. I have been told there are three variations of the Baker shotshell. What I dont know is if it is HS variations or manufacturing variations or a combination of both. Can anyone help me.


Dick Iverson list only three headstamp variations in his THE SHOTSHELL IN THE UNITED STATES and they depended on the company name at the time, since it changed three times before being acquired by Hunter. As for construction variations, there is a picture of a box marked W. H. BAKER & CO on www.bakercollectors.com which boast a steel cone and its superiority over one of brass. It looks as if a percussion cap fits over this cone. I was unable to make out the headstamp on the shells themselves but I assume they are marked BAKER STEELCONE. I’m told the BAKER & CO headstamp was the last and but I don’t know if it has a steel or brass cone.

Thanks JP,

my sampe is all brass and is headstamped " KYNOCH’ S PATENT"

It is very light ( compared to similar Fiocchi brass cases) and is 62,24 mm long.
Very small primer pocket, it is umprimed but the hole has a 4,45 mm diameter.

hello Pivi
You can have two kinds of all brass cases : heavy and light ones
And this for most of the manufacturers (DWM, RWS, Eley, Kynoch, SFM, Fiocchi)

The most commons among Fiocchi all brass cases are the heavy ones.
(the one you have in your collection is an heavy one)

Light ones from Fiocchi must be rare, I don’t have any in my collection I think.


Hi Shotmeister,

Thanks for the Baker Info. Just found my reference. There were three HS, Baker, Baker & Co. and Baker Steel Cone. Twelve ga. seems to be harder to find than 10ga.