10-round horseshoe clips for .30 Nato and 7.65 Belgium


#1

Here is a 10-round horseshoe clip for .30 Nato cartridges. There is no apparent marking (however, I did not check under the spring).

Can anyone help to identify it : Belgian for SAFN 49 or FAL ? British ?
For what caliber .30 Nato or earlier experimentals ?

Here is another variant for caliber 7.65x54 Belgian in the same style but not identical. It is marked “cal. 7.65”.
Here again for what weapon ? which country ?

Thanks for any help,

Cheers,

JF


#2

Not much help, but I can only think of Turkey, Argentina and Belgium as significant users of both cartridges.


#3

In the book “The FAL Rifle” there is a picture of this type of clip being used.


#4

The 7.62x51 10 round Horseshoe clip was made by FN and trialed on the early FAL rifles. The 10 round clips are to unwieldy to use so they never really went past being used in trials.

The 10 round clip was developed to try and keep with the old practice of one clip filling half the magazine capacity like on the Lee Enfield. Since the FAL magazine was 20 rounds it would require two 10 round clips. Of course it really wasn’t feasible so the 10 round horseshoe clip was dropped.

The British did try with a 5 round horseshoe but again it wasted too much space and could be bent out of shape, in the end the clips/chargers were reverted back to a 5 round Canadian design with minor differences found between British, Australian, American and FN made clips and chargers.

I haven’t seen the 7.65x54 clip before, but it’s probably for the Argentinean SAFN’s, again the most likely manufacturer is FN

Left: FN 10 round ‘Horseshoe’ Charger
Right: British 5 round ‘Horseshoe’ Mk. 1 Charger


#5

Thank you very much Kevin for your very precise information.

I will post later this week a close-up picture of the strange recurved end of the 7.65 variant.

Cheers,

JF


#6

Quote" Belgium, Turkey and Argentina as signicant users of 7,65mm…"

By the 1950s, when this clip was developed, the Belgians were using .30/06 (most of their 7,65 equipment was lost or dispersed during WW II ) and the Turks had abandoned the 7,65 cartridge in the 1920s, going over to 7,9mm by the 1930s with their wholesale rebuilding program of all the 7,65 calibre rifles to 7,9mm (virtually completed by 1939).

The Only other country, which used 7,65mm into the 1950s was Argentina, which did purchase a large quantity of SAFN-49 rifles in that calibre, and only converted them to 7,62 Nato in the mid 1960s-early 70s.

So the obvious user of the “7,65” marked clip would be Argentina. (all the major contracts of FN49 rifles were in 30/06 (Belgium, Luxembourg, Congo) or 7,9mm (Egypt)> The Venezualan 7mm contract was small and “one-off”, no other country acquiring a 7mm in Latin America…Most who did try the FN49, took them in 30/06 (aside from Argentina).

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#7

I am not into these calibers or into chargers, but need we mention here that Fabricaciones Militares in Argentina also made licensed copies of the FN-FAL Rifle? I see original talk was that this clip was for the FAL and then for Argentina alone, in 7.65mm, discussion started centering on the SAFN 49 which, as said, Argentina also used. Just a thought.


#8

I’m young and stupid, but must say that that I have never seen a horseshoe charger in Argentina. We did use the FN49, but again, never seen a charger.
On the other hand, it is not uncommon, that things that were used or meant to be used here, are only known to foreigners, for whatever reason it might be.


#9

Thanks a lot for these different messages.

Here is a closer picture of the recurved end lips. I wonder how this would fit into the Magazine Charging Adaptor ?

Cheers,

JF


#10

Same same in all Armies I think