Hello everyone. Turns out my new boss is pretty cool. He knows I’m into ordinance so he brought these in today. He says he used to be a range officer at a guard base around here somewhere and he just picks stuff up. I told him to “feel free” and bring in whatever he wants. He let me use company equipment for a couple minutes to clean them up too. Just a glass blaster to knock the rust off. If anyone has an idea what I should do with these I’m all ears! I was told the one on the left is a 105 Sabot and the one on the right is a 105 HEAT projectile. Training of course…


Henry, the left was a TPFSDS-T (I think an APFSDS-T can be excluded) and the right was a TPDS-T or APDS-T.
No HEAT here.

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Hi Alex, somehow I knew you would be the first to chime in, which is why I posted before I start searching. Thanks a lot my friend and when I get home I’ll look these up.

The one on the left is 120mm, not 105mm. It is TPFSDS as Alex stated. The one on the right is 105mm and as Alex said either the TPDS or APDS. If it has the tungsten core it’s the APDS, but they are hard to find it’s most likely the TPDS, they are very common.

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Thanks a lot guys. I just got home and looked up those acronyms. I am more or less a small arms guy so I can only go by what I’m told. Just awesome info here! KS, how do you know it’s a 120 and not a 105? And how can you tell by looking if it’s cone or fin-stabilized? Inquiring minds want to know…

APFSDS …“Jason” will chime in…he’s the US collecting expert

You work for a great boss!

Thanks for the kind words, Pepper!

This is totally up my alley!

As many here have stated, you definitely have a US made, 120mm M865 TPCSDS-T (Target Practice Cone Stabilized Discarding Sabot Tracer) sub-projectile dart on the left. The US M865, started out as the, German DM38 TPCSDS-T round, made under license. It has gone threw many redesigning upgrades over the years, with at least 5 variations adopted. Your dart is missing the cone stabilizer assembly. Early versions of the M865 had a ported cone stabilizer with 9 precision holes that help to reduce the travel distance of the sub-projectile so it stays contained within target practice firing ranges.At high speeds, these ports are aerodynamically open. As the dart travels down range and slows, the ports become aerodynamically closed. When this happens, the dart becomes unstable, tables in flight and falls to the ground, with-in a predetermined distance. This is called the LKL Principle. The ported cones were quickly replaced with a fluted cone stabilizer with 6 fluted cutouts on the cones outer edge. I always imagined the reasoning for the switch was for either ease of production or a cost saving angle or possibly both.

The sub projectile on the right is from a APDS-T or TPDS 105mm. As mentioned earlier, it is most likely from a TPDS projectile, especially if it a range pick-up.

I wrote 2, IAA articles on this subject for the journal and used to have PDF, but cant find it. I will continue to try. If I find it, I will post it here. Lots of photos describing this round.

Either way, SUPER COOL ADDITIONS! Really awesome!



Wow Jason thanks a ton, learned a lot! Hope I can get one with the cone someday… I’ll be anxiously awaiting your PDF whenever you get to it. These look great in my collection too…