11,15x60R Mauser M.71 - Spandau question


#1

Hello, I found new signatures. I thought that the first production of Spandau plants were hdps S * 1 76.
What known about these earlier ?

Is the S 8 75 was produced by Spandau or Small Arms. The font is different (more Gothic) but placement of letters more fit to Small Arms.

Next.

What means the eagle ?

Is known production of this type signatures in the other months ?

Regards. Ave


#2

I forgot to ask about the stars. What they mean and why there are two ?

S 3 ** 77

S 7 ** 77


#3

Little I know is the eagle is the Prussian Eagle.

The stars or asterisk at the bottom refer to the brass composition. There is no confirmation that I am aware of, but that is the general assumption. Maybe someone else has prof.

joe


#4

And the series of “o” around the Raised part of the rim is the number of Re-loads ( Mostly Depot or Regimentally done, for Training ammo Purposes.).

Great to find very early M71 cases still in existence… Has anybody ever come across German “Armory reloaders” for these German cartridges ( as one sees in Ideal/Lyman catalogues at the 1890s-1900s, in the USA?)

Doc AV


#5

Doc: I just wish “very early” Mauser 11 m/m cases, that is the two-piece ones (with the case body crimped to the head) manufactured before about 1875 were around. Their rate of survival seems really poor, as they must not have been very good and were turned in for scrap a very long time ago. Actually original brass in this caliber from about 1875 or so on is fairly common. Jack


#6

In reference to DocAV’s post above, here is a little blurb on German soldiers decapping 11.15mm Mauser fired cases and a cross section diagram of the decapping tool: wk2ammo.com/showthread.php?5 … ired-brass


#7

bdgreen,
Thanks for that Link to wk2ammo page. I was wondering about the Hydraulic set-up.

BTW, you mention “11.15” cases…That is the German Civilian (Sporting) Designation. The Correct designation for the Military Cartridge ( in discussion here) is the “Patrone 11mm M/71.”

A small difference, perhaps, but important in the Germanic Scheme of things…Possession of “11mm” ammunition was a serious offence, if one was not a Military person…Hence the Bullet diametered descrip[tion “11.15mm” for Civilian- Purpose Sporting ammo ( The difference is also in the Packet Labels.)…THis was also the Later Confusion with the M1888 cartridge ( 7,9mm for the Army, “8mm” for the Commercial trade).

Doc AV


#8

And what about first headstamp ? If anybody can confirm that was made by Spandau ?

Is known production of this type signatures in the other months ?


#9

Ave, there is documentation indicating that during 1875 the factories of Danzig, Erfurt and Spandau used this early three position style headstamp with a blank space; the “problem” is that the illustrations shows the manufacturer’s initial with the lower part of the letter pointing towards the primer. If this was purely artistic license or both styles were made at some point, I don’t know but seems unlikely. In any case, an August 1875 headstamp by Birmingham Small Arms & Metal Co. have their typical “S” and “A” letters.


#10

On the question of the star or stars at 6 o’clock in the headstamp: in my notes, together with the examples from the municion.org web site the star seems to begin in 1876. From that year until the end of the 1880s there is only a single symbol present, with the exception of Spandau in at least some months of 1877, where two appear. In addition to the March 1877 specimen shown by Ave, I have a June example, as does municion.org. Jack


#11

The showed „S“ from 75 is what I think not Spandau.

The good example of the first Spandau head stamp is the case with the eagle.
This was the first head stamp (1 76 ) from Spandau. Also month 3 is known with this eagle.
In April 1876 the known Spandau without eagle head stamp was introduced.

The first 2 star head stamp I know from is 12 76. Also the month 3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9 from 1877. Perhaps it is from interest that from the same months also cases are known with one star. I don’t know what the meaning is from the stars. It could mean a there was a second case production facility in the Spandau factory.

Rgds
Dutch


#12

Dutch: Thanks much for your information on the stars question. Jack


#13

Very interesting info, thank you Dutch !


#14

Dutch, Spandau was already manufacturing this cartridge in 1875, and if you check the M71 book you will note that this year is listed under Spandau but data is missing. However, it seems that no specimen was available for examination at the writing of this book.


#15

Fede, I checked the book.

On page 25 is written “production was starting in 1876 until 1889 “

Rgds
Dutch