this cartridge case is very similar to . 45Auto，but it’s headstamp is marked 11.25mm Caliber，and. 45Inch＝11.43mm，Are they the same type？
I’m pretty sure it’s Argentina .45ACP from 1978. Someone with more knowledge will be along later with specifics I’m sure.
thanks a lot.
As Squeaker said a 11.43x23 (.45 ACP) or as Argentina designated it 11.25x23.
Made by Fray Luis Beltrán.
Thanks for your reply
During 1971, Argentina adopted a cartridge designation system including the case length. Examples are: 9x19, 11,25x23, 7,62x33, 7,62x51, 7,62x63, 7,65x54 and 12,7x99.
Many people in this country still call it “once venticinco” (11-25).
Other countries have used metric designations for the .45 Automatic Cartridge as well:
Brazil - both Metric (11.43 mm) and inch (.45) used together on the same labels.
Norway - 11.25 m/m
France - 11,43 mm on some labels, 45 AUTO on others
Russia - 11,43 on English language metal containers of repacked US WW2 Ammo
Yugoslavia - .45 M1911 on some labels, 11.43 MM. M1911 on others
There may be other examples from other countries. These just happen to be among boxes I have in my own collection. See photo below:
The boxes are in about the same order, top to bottom, as described. The Russian label is a small photograph put in with one of the unlabeled full boxes from the tin.
John, the Yugoslav box marked “.45” was made for export. So that may explain it as the Yugoslav miliatry was all metric.
Would it be possible to see that label in complete?
And what are the headstamps to go with these boxes?
Some may wonder about the two different metric calibers 11.43 and 11.25 mm for this cartridge. They correspond to the groove diameter (.450") and the land diameter (bore .442", actually 11.23 mm) of the barrel.
Following usual practice, the bore diameter would determine the metric designation. But like 9 mm Parabellum, some organizations used the groove diameter.
Thanks a lot!
Alex - you are seeing the complete labels of both boxes. The only thing missing from the smaller box is part of the border line around the printed portion of the label. There are no other labels on either box.
I got the cartridges for these boxes over a year later than the boxes themselves, and by that time neither the party I got them from nor myself remembered which round was with which box. Both boxes are from 1962. The two headstamps are:
PPU 62 KAL.45
You’ll have to settle on “typed on line” renditions of the headstamps. My equipment, like me, is old and not functioning well. My scanner does a rotten job with anything but documents and box labels. If there is the slightest “second dimension” they come out bad - not worth the trouble to mess with them.
Characteristic of the two cartridges are the same - GM FMJ RN bullet, brass case, brass primer cup, Reddish-purple primer seal, no visible mouth seal. I only got one round for each box, and the boxes came empty earlier because they could be mailed.
In passing, I will note that I have never seen a Yugoslav .45 cartridge with a metric caliber designation on the headstamp.
John, thank you for the clarification!
It appears that Yugosalv (PPU) 11.43x23 / .45 ACP boxes are seldomly observed (and none by myself but that may not have any meaning).
Of course I do not mean the modern commercial ones.
I forgot, the .45 export box is as per the markings “P. Td.” a contract for Indonesia.
Fede identified this some longer ago.
EOD - I hadn’t thought about it, but you are right. You don’t see military-style boxes for .45 Auto caliber much from Serbia. I only have three, the two already shown, and the one pictured below, and I have three or four times that many commercial .45 boxes from the former Yugoslavia.
The cartridge with it has all the same characteristics as the previous two I described, but a later headstamp: PPU66 KAL.45
Thanks for the information on the box you mentioned as being from Indonesia. Do you know the meaning of the initials “P.Td.” in their original language and translated to English as well?
John, what an incredible box you have!
I am surprised it has no lot number!