11.35 Schouboe Question

Can someone tell me what the bullet jacket is made of on 11.35 Schouboe cartridges. Some places it says steel and others say nickeled copper.
Thanks, Bob

I have four specimens of this cartridge:

K DWM K 192. - CN (non magnetic) Semi-Pointed FMJ
K DWM K 192. - CN (magnetic). Open tip flat point with inner core exposed. NO sign of copper at the cut. It may be the core that is magnetic, not the jacket. Very hard to tell.
K DWM K 192 - Non magnetic Flat Point bullet, very small diameter meplat. Bullet appears to be solid Aluminum.
D R S 1913 - CN (non magnetic). Bullet ogive essentially identical to the first-listed DWM cartridge.

I am not willing to cut into any of these jackets in search of copper, but can only say I am not aware of any copper-jacketed, CN-clad or not, in this caliber. That does NOT mean it cannot extist; only that I have never seen one that could be so identified.

John Moss

Thanks John
There are more variations of this cartridge then I thought.
Bob

That is correct. I am still missing a couple of them, including DRS 1912. I usually don’t collect dates, but “cheat” on that when I feel it is important to have each date.

My DWM round with what I believe to be a totally aluminum projectile is very beat up. I am not positive of its authenticity. The case is original, for sure, but the projectile? I am just not sure. Its form is basically correct for this caliber of cartridge, as is the cartridge OAL.

John

When not magnetic they should be cupro-nickel.

I think the question in “cztrouba’s” mind is whether the cupro-nickel finish is applied over steel (CNCS jacket) or over copper (CNCu jacket). Again, I have one round with CN magnetic bullet, but don’t think it is due to CNCS jacket, but rather something in the core of the bullet. I could be completely wrong, of course. It is hard to use a magnet, even just the corner of it, on the amount of core exposed at the open tip of that specimen.

John Moss

John, weren’t the Schuboe projectiles not very light (wood or aluminum core)? In my view that would exclude anything made of steel inside the projectile.

Yes, they are very light weight. My information is that the common ball round has a wood core. I have one with a flat, open tip, as a normal ball round with the tip of the bullet cut off, exposing a flat silver-color metal surface that is a separate part (core?) from the bullet jacket itself. That bullet only, of the four I have, is magnetic, and the corner of the magnet seems to attract to the flat surface that is seen inside the open-tip of the bullet. Past that, I would have to basically destroy the projectile of that round to find out more about it, and since I don’t have a duplicate of it, I just don’t want to section it.

I was about to say that “your guess is as good as mine,” but actually, based on the level of knowledge between us, I will say that “your guess is BETTER than mine.”

Maybe someone who has really studied the Schouboe pistol and cartridge projects knows the complete answer? Perhaps one of our Scandinavian Forum users. I like the cartridge, but it is not one that I have ever spent a huge amount of time researching.

Edit to correct a typo only.

John Moss

John, of course I am not the one claiming to know it. And as the subject is far away from anything I may know (if at all) here the only cutaway image I know of.

Image source: internet.

IMG_7359

A sectioned bullet (completely wood-cored) is also shown in IAA issue 488 as part of an article on the so-called “rimmed” version. Starting on page 44, it also has some factory drawings that might be of use?

Great picture, Alex. Thanks. I see the core is primarily wood, but has what appears to be an aluminum (non-magnetic likely) base plug beneath the wood, around which the bullet jacket is formed. I see no copper in that jacket at all, confirming what we both thought.

Do you know, just for the record, is this a cutaway of a DWM or DRS loading?

Pete - thanks for the reference. I honestly didn’t even check my Schouboe file for anything on this thread. Still haven’t. Should have, of course.

John

I have archived the photo in EOD’s message as a cutaway of a DWM cartrige and believe it was originally posted on this forum.

Jochem, thank you for the detail. I usually do not log the source of images. I just keep all images I am downloading from the internet in one file and make sure not to mix them with images I am receiving from other people (as for their copyrights) or with those I am taking myself.

Thanks to everyone for the additional information. Journal #488 is in a blank spot for me as mine don’t go back that far and the copies in the resource center stop at #470
Thanks again, Bob

DWM supplied 4 different Schouboe cartridges to DRS.


But DRS also got catridges from S.A.
Schouboe æske

m89
Great Box, Thanks
John
On m89’s chart top bullet is marked “invalid” and is crossed out but the second bullet looks like the flat point bullet you described. It does not say what the core is made of and is marked “see also No. 344” .( I think)
The bottom one looks like the one in EOD’s photo.
Thanks again, Bob

I found this link to the Museum of Danish Arms that talks about early open tip cartridges.
Some of it has to be translated with google
http://www.arma-dania.dk/public/timeline/_AD_patroner_view.php?editid1=2
Bob

Great additional info folks. Thanks. I don’t have the open-tip, exposed wood core version, which I think is the second projectile shown. Mine is the first bullet, I believed, which is invalidated (cancelled; ungültig). It shows at the open tip a flat, separate piece of silver-colored metal, which I now believe to be aluminum. The flat meplat is perfectly formed, not cut off like the tip of the jacket itself. I just found a very weak, small magnet I have and had misplaced, and it does not appear that the exposed innner metal piece is magnetic, which the jacket is. The standard CN FMJ Semi-pointed bullet loaded by DWM is totally non-magnetic.

M89 - beautiful box! Thanks for posting the photo of it. I had not seen it before. However, I don’t understand you notation above it stating “But DRS also got cartridges from S.A.”
If “S.A.” refers to Société Anonyme, that is simply part of the name of the Dansk Rekylriffel Syndikat and is a form of incorporation of the company. As far as I have been able to find out, D.R.S. actually made the cartridges bearing their headstamp, in years 1912 and 1913, with the latter being the most common, if you can use the word “common” at all with Schouboe cartridges.

Attached is a box label from Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken, A.-G., even though the print is in Danish. The box is for 100 rounds of the normal K DWM K 192B-headstamped ball cartridges with CN FMJ Semi-pointed bullet. This particular box came out of Argentina. It only defines the cartridge as “til Rekylpistol” with no caliber designation. Not nearly as exciting a label as M89 posted, but important none-the-less.

Edited it to remove totally wrong attempt by me to translate “Tekylpistol.” See below for the real translation! Sorry about that.

John Moss

two great boxes, thanks gentlemen
The 4 here left to right.
DWM 192B. CN jacket.
DWM 192B. CNCS jacket, no trace of copper can be seen & non-magnetic core.
DRS 1912 CN jacket
DRS 1913 CN jacket
The bullet is CN jacket and appears to be the same type as EOD shows above. Weight is 60.5 grains


bullet base

Bob if you send me an e-mail, NOT a PM, I will send you the article.

Pete - your round second from the left is exactly like my open tip round - no wood apparent, just a flat aluminum surface within the CN jacket.

John M.