11.35 x 62 mm Madsen Checklist


#1

Does anybody can provide a checklist of headstamps and variations of this cartridge?
Thanks,
Fede


#2

The 11.35mm Madsen round was developed by Kynoch in the UK to Madsen’s requirements (as was usually the case with Madsen ammo - they had no ammo production facilities of their own). As far as I know, the only other country to make the ammo was the only user of the gun - Argentina.

Kynoch made the following loadings:

Ball, lead core/aluminium tip
Ball, mild steel core
AP, hard steel core (bullet tip painted green)
Flame tracer (red tip)
Smoke tracer, also designated incendiary (Buckingham type) (blue tip)

I don’t know what loadings were made in Argentina.

The typical Kynoch headstamp has the following:
K (12 o’clock), 11.35mm (6 o’clock), 1938 (19 at 9 o’clock, 38 at 3 o/clock)

A typical Argentinian headstamp has:
F.M.M.A.P.“B” (at 12 o’clock), 11.35mm (6 o’clock), 1946 (divided between 9 and 3 o’clock)

I have no information about production dates or other headstamps.


#3

In addition to above - I also have PROOF with copper-washed case and purple stripe across base and DRILL with chrome-plated case (holed) and red primer pocket - both dated 1938 & layout as per Tony. Earliest BALL I have is dated 1930. All Kynoch manufacture. Regards JohnP-C.


#4

HI!

-I have also a Proof round made by Kynoch, with copper plated case and purple bar across the head,

-and a dummy , also by Kynoch, plated all over, with 8 holes on two level of 4, painted red inside(there is a wooden spacer in the case), and no primer, the empty primer pocket being painted red.

For the FAMMAP made rounds, I have a Ball round dated 19 40 with CN jacketed bullet,(non mag), and another one, dated 19 45, with GM jacketed bullet (non mag)
.
From my local contacts, I do not think they made other loadings, only Ball ones, in Argentina.

PR


#5

I have the typical K 38 headstamp on a primed new empty which came from Argentina. They may have loaded some of these cases in Argentina as well.


#6

This is the resulting checklist:

Ball, 19 K 30 11.35 MM
Ball, 19 K 32 11.35 MM
Ball, 19 K 33 11.35 MM
Ball, 19 K 38 11.35 MM
Ball, 19 F.M.M.A.P.


#7

While researching the origins of this cartridge it’s very interesting to note that the oldest references for this cartridge are DWM number 563 from c. 1928 and the Kynoch drawing No. BK82/151 dated 10/19/1928.


#8

I can not contribute on the years but there exists also a danish drawing (no year) which shows a round nose projectile with a steel or iron core.


#9

Fede,

Do you know the dates between which the gun remained in Argentinian service, and which planes it was fitted to?


#10

Forgot - also have BALLISTIC STANDARD Kynoch 1938 date ( no annulus colour - did have box photo but can’t find!)
Also attached Kynoch 1928 drawing of AP bullet (note lack of cannelure which was added in 1929)
Also Kynoch 1932 order for Madsen & details of loads and markings.



#11

Hi Tony

The 11.35 mm Madsen machine gun was used in the Curtiss 75-0 (only one gun with 200 rounds mounted over the engine next to a 7.65 x 54 mm Mauser caliber Madsen). 29 or 30 units of this plane arrived from Curtiss between november 29 and december 30 of 1938 and from 1940 200 more were made in Argentina under license at the C


#12

Fede - I forgot to mention that Labbett & Mead “Technical Ammunition Guide Series 1, Pamphlet 1, British Madsen Ammunition (11.35mm; 20 mm; 23 mm)” has some good information on the 11.45 Madsen, primarily on the projectiles.


#13

Here is a site with some photos of the Curtiss 75-0, and some photos of the Madsen guns in the nose.


#14

Those Curtiss 75s seemed t be popular testbeds for Madsens. The only known aircraft service installation of the 20mm Madsen was in some 75s sold to Siam, and the only suspected installation of the 23mm version was on a couple of 75s sold to China.


#15

Hi Tony,

       The 20 mm Madsen and the arre 23 mm Madsen were also used by Argentina. The obvious option is a variation of the Curtiss Hawk, but wich one is not confirmed. The known information about Curtiss sales is very imcomplete.

         Federico Graziano.

#16

Can you provide any more details about the the Madsen cannon in Argentina, Frederico? This is very interesting news!

By the way, I have spent some time researching another gun and ammo combination which was unique to Argentina, AFAIK - this time for the navy. See this article on my website: quarry.nildram.co.uk/Vickers25.4.htm

Edit to add - I’ve just realised that you must know about this article, as you were one of the Argentinian cartridge collectors who contributed!


#17

some more info on Kynoch order from Argentina & details of loads. JohnP-C


#18

Does anyone know of a source for 11.35 Madsen brass? I’m looking for a parent case to develop a sub-sonic wildcat 50 caliber cartridge with a large enough diameter for a conventional shoulder. It must fit into an AR-10 magazine and function reilably in a semi-auto rifle. Being a machine gun cartridge leads me to believe that this case would be a good starting point, if I can find a quantity (several hundred pieces) to work with.

David[/i]


#19

[quote=“Fede”]This is the resulting checklist:

Ball, 19 K 30 11.35 MM
Ball, 19 K 32 11.35 MM
Ball, 19 K 33 11.35 MM
Ball, 19 K 38 11.35 MM
Ball, 19 F.M.M.A.P.


#20

I just want to correct the original list as follow:

Where it says:
Ball, 19 F.M.M.A.P.