11.3X50R & 11X52R Dutch Beaumont cartridges


#21

Liviu
I swore never to answer anything again that involves pictures but this one here needs correction I will try
but guarantee nothing.First of all i think most cartridges are Egyptian particular the coiled one wich is 433
I have almost a whole set of Egyptian rounds and the Beaumonts you are looking for the Ball load
the Carbine load,and the shot load made for east India.I do not know what that really short load on the top is
never heard of or seen it and the books do not give any account either.Yes they do represent a certain problem
because nothing is stamped but if you knee into it with the proper literatur there is no problem.I will try to get
some pics together but do not hold your breath. Sherryl


#22

For detailed info on the Beaumont and Beaumont-Vitale rifles, one must go to the excellent Dutch language book on Nederlands Military rifles by DeVries and Martens.
Anybody with good ordnance and a smattering of German and an analytical “gun friendly” mind can make sense of the Text.
The book shows how Beaumont had his
Rifle built by a Suhl company initially and then by
Petrus Stevens of Mastricht in Holland, and that some were assembled by the Gov’t weapons factory in Delft, as were the conversions to the M78 cartridge and later the Vetterli Mag. System.

This book is a must for anybody working on Beaumont Rifles ( and also the Remington RB carbine used with the Beaumont)…except for the Schools short Beaumont, there were No Beaumont carbines in Dutch service, either Nederlands or KNIL.
Any so called Carbines are usually after surplus wholesaler cut downs…for the civilian/ colonial market.
Think ALFA and AKAH and Bannermann.

Doc AV

PS I had never tried to fathom the Dutch language until I lucked onto a M 1871/88 Vitale conversion, P.Stevens,
And the book with it. .
After much reading, I realised that a lot of words were either very similar to a rather old English, or Germanic…withsome French terms thrown in…
and the Grammar was easy enough to comprehend.
An English- Dutch dictionary would be a help I suppose…
The advantage of a cross-wired brain, I suppose.

Aspi Doc AV


#23

I have two inert examples, that I thought were 11x52R Beaumont.
In the appended images and table I’ve called them; ‘Short’ and ‘Long,’ with regard to the case length.

Short (no headstamp)

Long (no headstamp)

Long

Short Long Specification
Head 14.67 14.60 14.65 - 14.78
Case Length 51.275 51.80 50.50 - 51.5
Rim Thickness 1.50 1.50 1.50
Rim Diameter 17.05 16.65 17.00 - 17.25

As they have been inerted the total length is possibly not accurate.

The bullet diameter for both is approximately: 11.50mm including the patch.

The ‘Short’ would appear to fit the Beaumont specification of the diagram posted by Munavia.

Is the; ‘Long,’ an Egyptian Remington?

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

Sam3
Edited to correct Rim Thickness in the measurements table


#24

I have these 2 boxes in my collection. original Dutch Beaumont boxes ball and blank


#25

Hi gyrojet,
Would it be possible to have the dimensions of the Beaumont ball cartridge?
Regards,
Sam3


#26

Hi gyrojet,
and also scan of the base, please?
regards


#27

There are some images of the 11x52 Dutch Beaumont, that might add to the discussion, at:

https://militarycartridges.com/category/144-11mm-x-52mm-dutch-beaumont/

Sam3


#28

I have taken three measurements from the ‘Hollande Cartouche pour fusil BEAUMONT’ and compared the data to:

‘Short’
‘Long’

Munición 1883

Munición 1878

sherryl Egyptian

sherryl Beaumont

Green denotes ‘in agreement’ with the; ‘Hollande Cartouche pour fusil BEAUMONT,’ document.

Red is not in agreement

Yellow is borderline agreement.

The data from sherryl was taken from a parallel thread; ‘Egyptian Cartridges.’

My hope was to see if there were one or two parameters that would distinguish, reasonably well, between the Egyptian and Dutch Beaumont.

Beaumont-5.pdf (575.1 KB)


#29

Both cartridges described as M71 and M71/78 have both a flat nose bullet, a modification introduced with the M71/88 Beaumont/Vetterli in 1888 so I would say that these cartridges were manufactured after this 1888…


#30

To laurent + Sam
I took a measurement of the Egypt cartridge made in Birmingham this one is the real Mc Coy very early
and untouched the one I gave before was of the Egytien Werder Rifle perhaps there is a difference.
Head 581
mouth 491
Case lenhgt 1906
Rim 653
bullet 442
Now I compared those numbers with Hoyem they are in the Ball park except the mouth 491 verses 480
Sherryl


#31

Hi sherryl and laurent,
Have added the above measurements from sherryl for the; ‘Egyptian made in Birmingham,’ plus the data from ‘laurent’ on the Beaumant cartridges at:

A data point in yellow is within .05mm of the specification from the; ‘Hollande Cartouche pour fusil BEAUMONT,’ document.

Beaumont-11.pdf (503.8 KB)

Any thoughts or comments would be welcome.

Sam3


#32


#33

Nice items, thank you!


#34

Many thanks for the images…much appreciated.
Sam3