11.7mm x 51mm Danish Remington

I have these two 11.7mm Danish cartridges - the cartridge pictured left is a ‘11.7mm Skarp Patron til Rytterkarabin M.1867/96’ manufactured by Haerens Laboratorium in 1896. The faint headstamp reads
’ HL | 96 | '.
The cartridge pictured on the right has a very different bullet profile and an obvious cannelure around the case. Its headstamp is ‘crown * 19 HL 08’. What is it?

a “RytterKarabin” is a Cavalry carbine; the Model 1867/96 is probably a conversion of cartridge type (?RF to CF?) I am not up to Danish pre 1889 types).

The second shell with the * placed somewhat arbitrarily seems to be a factory reload (very common in Europe before WW I, esp. in small countries with Limited Defence Budgets).

The cannelure is to better seat the projectile, to a prescribed depth.

Nice examples.

Doc AV

Service rounds for the Danish 11.7 mm centerfire Rolling Blocks will have allways cupro-nickel fmj bullets.
Like this: municion.org/11/CromatG.jpg

Carbine loads have less powder than rifle loads, so the bullets are seated deeper in a case of same length. The difference of the total cartridge length is approx. 3 mm.

The “line” across the head just indicates that the cartridge once was made for use in Remington-made rifles. These were somewhat “softer” than the Danish made Rolling Blocks (all Danish centerfire Rolling Blocks are adapted rimfire ones of US and Danish origin). To provide damages the powder amount was reduced a little bit (about 0.3g).

Designations of the cartridges are:
Skarp Geværpatron M.1867/96
Skarp Geværpatron M.1867/97 -> for Remington-made rifles with “line” across headstamp
Skarp Karabinpatron M.1867/96

Danish 11.7x51R with standard lead bullets in several variations are factory reloads for “De Danske Skytteforeninger” (The Danish Shooters-Association), commercial or homemade ones.

Thank you both.

Also note that the star as reloading mark were used by the Army Laboratory/Arsenal whereas a circle were used by Dansk Ammunitionsfabrik ‘Otterup’. Last symbol not to be confused with the oval, which were used on reloads of, among others, 37mm Hotchkiss, 40mm Bofors etc.

If anyone should be needing brass the 8x58rd can be fireformed to exact dimensions only needs to be trimmed to length post forming

Left one looks like it is a M1867 projectile in a M1867/96 case.
Not made like that at the arsenal. High propability of a shooting society reload.

Right one is a puzzle.
The Arsenal never ever put canelures in cases, why would you need that in a singleloader?
Most likely another private reload.