12,7 mm remington?!

I doubt. Tell me.
Is the cartridge 12.7 * 45 R papal remington?!
Headstamp Lorenz Carlsruhe

Norway and Sweden made 12,7x44R CF for civilian use during the 1880’s.


Why are the 12,7 and 12,17 numbers used? These have no historical use and are based simply on the dimensions!
The cartridge was at first named “4 line cartridge”, after 1878 called 12 mm.
x44 was taken into use in 1871.

The ammunition packets were marked 4 ‘’’’ for the 4 line ones, after 1878 they switched to 12 mm.

Thus, please call them 12x42 and 12x44, “12,7” and “12,17” are nonsensical.


Yeah and the 9mm Parabellum is most all named “Luger” but we can all wish ;-)

Then again i specifficaly mentioned the civil cartridge wich is CF and the military denomination might not apply there?

The civilian catalogues called it 12 mm.


Perhaps the 12mm is right for Norway,but our foreign friends must be allowed to call it 12,7.
Even our friend J.S.agreed on this…(O:

Pictures from the internet!

There are often more than one legitimate designation for the same cartridge. In the case of the 9 mm Luger/Parabellum, the use of the term “LUGER” to describe the caliber predates the 9 x 19 mm cartridge. It is not something new. Union Metallic Cartridge Co. began making the 7.65 mm Parabellum cartridge in 1901, one year before the introduction of the 9 mm version, and their log shows the designation “Luger” and uses both the metric and the inch names “7.65 Luger or .30 Cal.” as the title of their entries for that caliber. Any example of multiple names for the same cartridge is also evident in the application of how the actual caliber is described in many instances. For example, 7.63 mm Mauser in metric-using countries; .30 Mauser in inches for countries using that system. I know this sounds funny coming from me, but we can’t be too rigid on these designations just because we prefer one over another. Some cartridges have five or six acceptable designations depending on the times and the user. JMHO.

John Moss

Thanks for answers!

Could you tell me the timing of the production of the cartridge papal remington?

According to the book Vom “Remington” zum Sturmgewehr 90 Die Schusswaffen der Päpstlichen Schweizergarde, by Vincenz Oertle, the Remington model 1868 was in use from 1881 to 1911. That was the rifle for the 12,7x45R Papal cartridge.

Why since 1881?
from 1868-1911

The modell of the rifle has nothing to do, with its use.
The papal forces used this type of rifle in that caliber from 1881 onwards…
In 1868 was no papal remington cartridge…