12,7x44 RWS


#1

Anybody care to tell me what the big H stands for?
And perhaps the date?


#2

Here are my notes on “Norwegian H Type cartridges” :

The designation ‘H’ is often associated with the CF version of the 12x44R Remington M71 RF cartridge (aka 12.17x44R M71 RF) used in Norway. The c1900 RWS/Utendoerffer catalog shows seven cartridges that are designated as either ‘H’ or ‘F.H’ and these are generally believed to be for Norwegian purposes but apart from the 12x44R, are practically unknown in that country (or in fact any country). These calibers use a variety of case diameters (13.6-14.3mm) and also a mixture of raised and flat bases.

The ‘H’ is speculated to stand for “Hagen” (Lars Hansen Hagen, 19th century Norwegian Gunmaker of Christiania) , as he is likely to have been the first Gunmaker to have produced the CF conversion of the Norwegian military rifle that used a 12.17x44R M71 RF cartridge. The ‘H’ title is also shown in Geco catalogs as well as Lorenz catalogs as “Norwegian H” (see image). The “H” title was used in Stahl catalogs for the 8x57R Hagen (EXP22).

It appears that if a second ‘flat base’ case type version was produced that is very similar to the original in overall dimensions but has a different base, then the term ‘F’ is added to the designation. For example the 12.7x44R with raised base is called ‘H’ , a flat based version of this caliber is designated ‘F.H’.

It is also noted that all the F.H. calibers have flat bases (see also the Swiss ‘K’ types for ‘F.K’.), so one is inclined to think that ‘F’ stands for “Flach” (meaning ‘Flat’). However some of the flat based calibers are designated just ‘H’ (eg. 11.7x49R : SC4) so this issue is by no means clear-cut. Perhaps the “F” was only used if there were both raised and flat based versions.

Speculation that FH stands for ‘Firma Hagen’ (meaning the Hagen Company) has also been made but this is not supported by Heinz Held nor myself.

Note that these case types use either a 13.6mm or 14.0-14.3mm case diameter. The 13.6mm case types can easily be mistaken for the Swiss MS type (which uses a 13.6-13.7mm base).


#3

Great answer,thanks a lot!
It was found in Norway 30 years ago.
But I guess that 68 at the bottom cant be the year of manufacture then…


#4

That RWS box packing date code appears to be J68M which corresponds to either 28Mar1914 or 28Mar1939. The company name doesn’t help but the style of the box markings appears early and the absence of the “R” in the 12.7x44 would indicate pre-1922 so I assume it is very likely 1914.

I also assume the box is empty ? However if it contents were headstamped “R.W.S. 12.7x44R” it could be later but they could also be marked “H.UTENDOERFFER” which generally means that they were pre-WW1 (but not always). It could even be a pre WW1 box packed in 1939. Hard to be precise with these !.


#5

The case shown as SC2 is’nt that a 12mm (Hagen) Lund?

12mm%20Lund


#6

They may look a bit similar at first glance but they are not even close !

Compare the dimensions given in the drawing (confirmed by example) and the article by Jon Steinsnes.

The 11.9mm Lund (aka 12x44R Hagen-Lund = SC10 in ESC) has a bullet diameter c12.6mm, a case length of c43.9mm, a case head diameter of c14.8mm and a rim diameter of c16.3mm.

The 11.1x46.5R appears to be extremely rare and a bullet diameter c11.1mm, a case length of c46.5mm, a case head diameter of c13.6mm and a rim diameter of c15.2mm.

Overall the Lund is about 1mm larger in all dimensions except case length where it is c2mm shorter.

image