12 gauge brass case by kynoch


#1

Hi,
I would like to have some info about this fired 12 gauge brass case.
It is 62 mm long

Thanks
Pivi


#2

It is a light brass case like many other European companies used to manufacture (SFM, Gaupillat, Fiocchi RWS, Eley, aso)
(In the case of Eley you very often find an hstp with two calibers (10 12 or 12 Gauge or 12 14 for 14 Gauge)).
I say light brass case because heavy brass case were also manufactured.
Your ctge is made from two pieces of brass (head and tube) and was a Kynoch patent
jp


#3

This is manufactured to Kynoch’s 1882 patent for thin brass cases.


#4

Hi Pivi, your shell is indeed made from 1882 until probably 1898. From that year on the headstamp changed into KYNOCH PATENT. Without the 'SYour shell is known as a two piece thin brass shell. This headstamp is usually found on these kind of cases but also are found on solid brass cases.
They have been made in most gauges and several caselenghts. regards rene


#5

Thank you.Since it is fired I don’t think it has a great value.Could it be 2 or 3 dollars?

Pivi


#6

I don’t think it having been fired has a significant impact on value, unless it has condition problems. I believe the brass shells were usually sold empty.


#7

[quote=“rene”]Hi Pivi, your shell is indeed made from 1882 until probably 1898. From that year on the headstamp changed into KYNOCH PATENT. Without the 'S
[/quote]
Hum, very interesting.
I never took attention to this difference.
Where did you get this info (year when the hstp changed) ?
jp


#8

[quote]info on change headstamp 'S[/quote]Hi JP, I found this info in Dale Hedlunds Book, ‘KYNOCH’ They cannot be excact on the year of change but people are most certain of this year 1898.
Regards Rene


#9

But where is the EVIDENCE for the change from ‘KYNOCH’S’ to ‘KYNOCH’ ??? An announcement in the press - a new catalogue ???


#10

I don’t know if this is helpful at all, but I have no auto pistol cartridge in my collection, even ones that existed before 1898 (7.63 Mauser, Mannlicher rounds, Borchardt, etc.), nor any 7.9 x 57mm Mauser, Sporting or Military, that uses the form “KYNOCH"S”, in my collection. All say either “KYNOCH” or some other form of known Kynoch headstamp (* K * B)(KB) not involving the full name.

To me, this would indicate discontinuance of the form at the latest sometime around the mid-1890s, with 1898 being possible. It is only circumstantial evidence, however, and in no way confirms an exact date or even year.

Again, this may not be helpful to the discussion at all. It is the only approach I can take, though, from my limited knowledge and collection.


#11

I am wondering also.
Unfortunately, Dale, who was a good friend of me is no more there.
I am VERY VERY interested by the EXACT date when they changed the hstp.

In the 1897 catalogue the hstp is Kynoch’S
I have the 1898 catalogue but my xeros copy is very bad quality and I cannot read the hstp.
Perhaps somebody has a better quality one and could tell us the hstp.
Thanks
JP


#12

Any idea on the value of my case?


#13

J-P,
I believe the possessive KYNOCH’S is in reference to the patent, so the 'S would not appear on other metallic shells made at the same time the 1882 - 1898 2 piece shells were being made.

The two-piece brass shells illustrated in the 1898 catalog have KYNOCH’S, but this may just be a case of their not having revised the catalog illustrations.

The shell in the 1902-3 catalog does not have the 'S.


#14

Thanks Guy !
.

  1. Why do you say that : "but this may just be a case of their not having revised the catalog illustrations."
    The way you say that means you are pretty sure they changed in 1898.

  2. I wanted to check the two ctges but all the ones in my collection are with a S !!!. Does it exist without S ??
    JP


#15

JP,
I haven’t any idea when they changed, but was just pointing out that the catalog illustrations would not necessarily keep up with the actual changes to the shells.

I have examples of both headstamps.


#16

Even with my computer glasses on, I completely missed the apostrophe between the “H” and the “S”. Of course it is possessive, and I agree 100 percent that it is not another form of the general Kynoch headstamp, but refers to “Kynoch’s Patent.” The only question left is did they use the word patent on shells later than 1898 - there would be little reason for any headstamp not with that word or something else that required the possessive form of Kynoch, to have the possessive form “Kynoch’s” wording on it.


#17

Thanks
JP


#18

About Kynoch’s this is not used after the 1898 we are talking about.
But the word Patent has been used for some more years. The headstamp Kynoch’s patent has been replaced by the headstamp Kynoch Perfect. In Dale Hedlunds book he speaks of 'The change to Kynoch Perfect would have been several years later.
The word patent also shows up on the “Grouse” Ejector cases. “These cases are paper ejector cases almost completely covered by thin brass”. The paper that is not covered by the brass has different colours. This tells you for which kind of powder that particular shell is used. : Green or Maroon is for black powder; Orange is for E.C. Smokeless and Salmon was for Schultze. Pink cases where added in 1889 and are used for S.S. smokeless powder. the Grey and Yellow cases are from 1897 but it is not known if they are used for a specific powder. All this information comes from Dale Hedlunds book. The Grouse ejector cases where made until 1906. Regards Rene


#19

So the grouse ejector cases should be similar to this 16-gauge new case made by the cartoucherie francaise


#20

[quote=“Pivi”]So the grouse ejector cases should be similar to this 16-gauge new case made by the cartoucherie francaise

[/quote]

Yes Pivi…
I call that Paper Lined Brass
You can finde also from other manufacturers :
Paper Lined Aluminium, Paper Lined Galvanized steel
JP