12 gauge darts


#1

hello

During the Vietnam War are tested by american army 12 gauge darts for combat in jungle.

  • do you know armies today who continu to use this type of ammunition?
  • do you have informations about this type of cartridge.
    today some ammunition use darts some 40 mm grenade and 120 mm tank round.

NB
I have just a picture in black and white but I don’t understand why for added this pictures I just enter in the IAA I’m desagreed
I’m french and I don’t speak english fluently!!!


#2

Picture Question/Answer

Assuming that the picture is on your computer.
Go to www.photobucket.com and create a account for yourself IE: register
Upload the photo from your computer to your photobucket account (select “Browse”, find the picture on your computer, select “open” than select “Upload”)

To display that picture on this forum, go to your photobucket account, and under your picture will be 3 lines of “code”. Select the 3rd line (says “IMG Code” in front of it) by left clicking on it with your mouse (the line will change color), than right click on it, and select “copy” from the drop menu.

Place your curser where you wish to insert the photo into your post, right click your mouse and select “paste” from the drop menu.

Hint: Hit the enter key in between separate photos, so that they stack, otherwise the will get placed side by side and make the thread to wide to view easily.

Please, once you understand the process of posting photos, could you provide the instructions in French, so that other French speakers will be able to post their photos also?


#3

Aller dans: photobucket.com
S’inscrire : pseudo, mot de passe et formulaire


#4


ok
merci pour l’aide[/img]


#5

Thanks for posting the instructions in French so samourai could learn how to upload that photo. That picture is great. Flechette ammunition of all calibers is facinating. Do the darts keep their orientation in flight, or do they tumble not having a tight bore fitting sabot around them?


#6

[quote=“samourai”]hello

During the Vietnam War are tested by american army 12 gauge darts for combat in jungle.

  • do you know armies today who continu to use this type of ammunition?
  • do you have informations about this type of cartridge.
    today some ammunition use darts some 40 mm grenade and 120 mm tank round.

NB
I have just a picture in black and white but I don’t understand why for added this pictures I just enter in the IAA I’m desagreed
I’m french and I don’t speak english fluently!!![/quote]

THANK YOU FOR POSTING IN ENGLISH.

The flechette has been experimented with in many sizes and form and has been adopted in several calibers. The 12 ga versions are the most common of the US military types. These were tested by not widely used.

Here are a couple of types of flechette designs.

The flechette is most effective in rocket and artillery sizes where accuracy is not as critical as it is with small arms ammo.

Here are some single flechette cartridges.

This is an artillery shell which contains 10,000 flechettes.

There is also a French language section of the European club which can be contacted from the home page here.


#7

[quote=“jean-pierre”]Aller dans: photobucket.com
S’inscrire : pseudo, mot de passe et formulaire


#8

Some of the top ammo experts in the world speak French. Dr. Regenstreif comes to mind. I would like to be able to read the French site but BABLEFISH does not translate this type of material well.


#9

That sectioned artillery shell is fantastic! 10,000 flechettes! Is it true that some flechette ammo is called Bee Hive ammo because thousands of tiny darts flying sound like a swarm of bees coming at you? Anyhow, really cool assortment of dart ammo pics and facts.


#10

I read darts with the weight are rock it the same thing with the 40 mm High velocity using by the US ARMY the M 1001
I read the darts in jungle are more accurate than 5,56 x 45 mm
But I don’t know the effect the target.


#11

There are literally hundreds of flechette styles and size. They are excellent projectiles for target effect on personel . They are very difficult to remove and require more extensive medical attention than standard minor bullet wounds thus putting a much greater strain upon enemy support resourses.

The accuracy in vegitation is poor due to their weight and easy deflection.

For short distance jungle warfare a 12ga with flechettes might be more likely to take out a target than a full auto 5.56 but for any situation requiring distance firing the shotshell is no match. One of my friends carried a 12ga and his M16 in Viet Nam and I understand others did as well. He never saw the flechette rounds and I doubt that many others did either. The 12ga 000 buck was the usual load.


#12

[quote=“samourai”]I read darts with the weight are rock it the same thing with the 40 mm High velocity using by the US ARMY the M 1001
I read the darts in jungle are more accurate than 5,56 x 45 mm
But I don’t know the effect the target.[/quote]

Accurate; what does this mean in a tactical situation; 1) ability to hit a point target or 2) ability to hit any target. For any point target the flechette is not good- these shells were designed for multiple projectile fire to cover an area. No single shot flechette weapons was considered for military use as the single shot accuracy is poor. For short distance effect on any target the shotshell is hard to beat- ask any bird hunter.

These are AAI mass stablilized flechettes for the CAWS system.

Flight stability is a major problem in flechettes due to their light weight. In this design there is a sliding plastic cylinder which slips to the rear to provide flight stability.

Yes flechette cannisters are called “beehive” rounds. They are full of stingers.


#13

These AAI rounds actually use a flechette that is stabilized by what was called a drag-cone.


#14

This is mass as opposed to aerodynamic stablilization. The center one is a total failure of both.


#15

The 105mm Bee Hive round is very impressive. I have seen them fired and fired a few in training. I would NOT want to be on the receiving end. In effect it turns Artillery into VERY large shotguns to stop close in (out to around 1000 meters, if memory serves) massed infantry. They can be set to burst anywhere from at the muzzle to 500 or so yards down range. I am strictly referring to the rounds used in the U.S. 105mm towed here. Other rounds might have differant specs.


#16

Must be impressive to see 1st hand. Do they call it BEE HIVE because of the sound the darts make in flight or the fact that it is full of stinging darts? I can only imagine how it would suck to be on the receiving end, WOW! Are their any pictures of practice target effects after these darts hits something? Must be pretty devastating.


#17

The 152mm cannister( 10,000 flechettes) was test fired against attacking NVN regular troops from the Sheridan tank. The movie of it is still classified but is in the classified library at Aberdeen if someone wants to try to see it.


#18

Growing up, my neighbor was a retired Marine artilleryman who served during Vietnam. He related several experiences where “beehive” rounds were used in “direct fire” against attacking NVA troops. He did say that the flechettes made a sound like swarming bees and that the effect on target was devastating. In many cases, the soldiers on the receiving end were simply vaporized. IIRC, he was talking about 155mm guns, not 105’s but I could be mistaken.

AKMS


#19

Years ago, I had a Vietnam era 2.75" helocopter rocket with a warhead that had 1000,'s of tiny flechetts. I’ll search for pics. I was told by the guy I sold it to that it was also called a “Bee Hive” warhead and made a buzzing sound in flight.


#20

[quote=“CSAEOD”]
We need to add this to the technical issues section as well. We need this info in as many languages as possible.[/quote]

I am working to a translation in French of the FAQ Photo posting (complete page).
I nearly finished.

Michel