12 mm pinfire


#1

Hi,
a friend of mine asked me to post some questions about a 12 mm pinfire ball round made by “laboratorio pirotecnico” for the italian army in 1864.
It is headstamped LP and with the italian flaming bomb.
He would like to know:
1-how rare is this round
2-what could be its value

Thanks
Pivi


#2

[quote=“Pivi”]Hi,
a friend of mine asked me to post some questions about a 12 mm pinfire ball round made by “laboratorio pirotecnico” for the italian army in 1864.
It is headstamped LP and with the italian flaming bomb.
He would like to know:
1-how rare is this round
2-what could be its value

Thanks
Pivi[/quote]

Pivi, at auction several years ago, one went for $ 110. M. Rea


#3

[quote=“m d rea”]
Pivi, at auction several years ago, one went for $ 110. M. Rea[/quote]

A little bite too expansive I think !!
Your price is coming from a Buttweiller or another US auction, isn’t it ?
These rounds (with dates 1864 and later) used to be sold on French gunshows in the 5 to 10 Euros range.(6 to 12 dollars)
They appear at the same time as an huge lot of Italian ctges (full boxes of 8 mm Tribuzzio and 7.65 Pickert for example).
JP


#4

Thanks
I had heard something like this about 6.35 pickert cartridges too.Once they were sold at very high prices,later from 10 to 15 euros after one or two full boxes were discovered.

Pivi


#5

Hi Pivi
you are right, 6.35 Pickert also.
Anyway the normal price of a LP pinfire must not been very expansive, even before some of them arrived into the gunshows in France.
Indeed was makes the price of a ctge?

  1. First the caliber.
    This ctge is not a scarce caliber. 12 mm is as common as 7 or 9 mm.
    If it was in 15 mm, or 10.5 mm, aso it would be different.
  2. Second the year of manufacturing.
    This ctge is from 1865, as old as a lot of PF ctges you find for 2 dollars.
    (In general all the RAISED hstp French PF ctges are before 1870.
    And they are cheap and common.
    It would be different if the ctge was from about 1850.
  3. Third the quantity of manyfactured ctges.
    The LP was a military ctge (and if I am right for the Italian Navy).
    It means 200 or 300 ctges were delivered at EACH Italian port where there was a Navy base.
    When you deal with a CIVILIAN ctge manuafctured only at 100 or 200 samples for the all country, it is very different
  4. And to finish, was the ctge a forunner or an already well established manufacturing ?
    Copper case, one piece, therefore nothing special.
    It would be different if for example it was a two pieces case like at the beginning of manufacturing

To conclude let’s compare the 12 mm LP and the 50 Chaudun

I dont know how much this one was in the action.
But to be logic it must be 10 times more expansive
JP


#6

I agree,however according to me there is another important factor that makes the price of a cartridge:the variations.
For example blank,AP,shot loads of a cartridge could be more scarce than the standard ball load

Pivi


#7

[quote=“Pivi”]I agree,however according to me there is another important factor that makes the price of a cartridge:the variations.
For example blank,AP,shot loads of a cartridge could be more scarce than the standard ball load

Pivi[/quote]
Yes Pivi you are right.I forgot the loading.

Shot or blank are not always more expansive than a regular ball loading, sometimes yes, sometimes not.
JP