13.2 Hotchkiss Info needed


#1

This caliber was manufactured in France but also in other countries like :

Poland,
Italy,
Greece,
Japon,
Netherland,
Germany,
Romania,
China,
Russia,
aso

I am looking for scans of:
factory drawings,
catalogue pages,
box labels

on this ctge.

(Any country except France)

Pictures of samples are also interesting me.
Thanks

JP


#2

J-P

I have plenty of Kynoch drawings for the 13.2 Hotchkiss, but some are a rather large to copy or scan easily.

I am in Italy for work at present but I will PM you next week.

Regards
TonyE


#3

[quote=“TonyE”]J-P

I have plenty of Kynoch drawings for the 13.2 Hotchkiss, but some are a rather large to copy or scan easily.

I am in Italy for work at present but I will PM you next week.

Regards
TonyE[/quote]

Thanks TonyE.

Just send me the drawings numbers, it will be enough in a first time.
Indeed I think I have already all the original Kynoch drawings.
No need to spent your time if I already have them.

And perhaps I have some you don’t have.
JP


#4

About German factory drawings on Hotchkiss I am looking the one from Mauser.
I think all the other ones are already OK.
JP


#5

I am starting to flip out !
Is documentation on 13.2 Hotchkiss as rare as shotshells documentation ???

Italian army used 13.2, they even developp a special MG for this caliber.
And used it for more than 15 years.

Poland also used this caliber.

Japan of course also.

And even Chile if I remember well.

JP


#6

J-P - this is totally out of my field and I don’t have very much material on this type of ammunition. Of course, you already have the book “Military rifle and Machine gun Cartridges,” by Huon. It is covered there, but no factory drawings.

The only thing I can add is that these rounds were also manufactured in Mexico. I have some headstamp drawings I made from specimens in the woodin collection, since I was planning on doing an article on all Mexican metallic cartridge headstamps, until it got so many that it became a project almost impossible to publish, requiring slightly over two hundred headstamp drawings, which I have made, not counting dates.

I have three different headstamp drawings, all from “F de M” in Mexico:

  • F de M * CAL. 13.2
  • F de M - 13.2 m/m 1936
    F de M CAL 13.2-40

I know this isn’t what you have asked for, but hope it is of some help and interest anyway.

There seems to be some question in my files about Sweden using this round. I have a note from a Swedish military ammunition website that says the 13.2 x 99 had been “used in the Airforce for their Automatic cannon M/39.” However, I am not positive they are referring to the Swedish Airforce, since the next entry talks about Italian made ammunition of this caliber (no real information except recording a headstamp of “SMI 1939 IX.” The note goes on that they were “mounted in for example J22, A21/J21 aircraft.” Perhaps one of our airplane afcionados can identify the country discussed by the gun model or the model designations of the aircraft.

That is all I really have on the subject, except what is in Huon’s book and Tony Edwards book.


#7

Thanks for the info John.

Therefore I have to look for Mexican documentation now !
It is becoming harder !! lol !

JP


#8

" I have three different headstamp drawings, all from “F de M” in Mexico:

  • F de M * CAL. 13.2
  • F de M - 13.2 m/m 1936
    F de M CAL 13.2-40 "

John,
could you please send me the exact drawings of the hstp.
and colors pa ba and tip if some.
thanks
jp


#9

Yes, Sweden used the FN .50 BMG aircraft gun in 13.2x99 calibre. It was installed in some planes during WW2, but with the demise of the 13.2mm ammo the guns were rebarrelled to 12.7x99 (.50 BMG).

I have been sent a colour page from a Greek catalogue of 1939 which shows “13mm AA ammunition”, both complete and sectioned. The only problem is that there are clearly two different rounds shown (and no, these aren’t the 13.2x99 and 13.2x96 - the shoulders are in different positions). The pic will be appearing as a question in the ECRA 517 bulletin shortly, but I’m happy to email to anyone who asks for it.


#10

I don’t have any information on the cartridges themselves. I believe I made the drawings at Bill Woodin’s Lab. You might ask him for the information.

I will scan the headstamp drawings I made, which while I am not a professional draftsman, I believe are decent renditions, and accurate as to content. I will do the Argentine catalog also. I had to leave here early yesterday morning for a family emergency, and I just got back a little bit ago. I will be gone again all day tomorrow, and back late Monday, probably. My time is simply not my own lately. Sorry for the delay.

My article was to be simply on headstamps that appear on Mexican metallic cartridges - now abandoned (the article, that is) - so when looking for rounds to reproduce the headstamps from, the loadings and other markings were not of interest to me (unless, of course, they were in my own collecting fields).


#11

Jean-Pierre, where comes the info from that Russia made 13.2mm Hotchkiss cartridges?


#12

From a guy. But perhaps he mistakes with other east european countries like Poland or Romania.

Poland at least, I am sure, made and used Hotchkiss.

jp


#13

I have a few headstamp variations in this calibre. These are the british varitions BY STYLE not date, Various dates can appear in the different styles.

These are the Belgian and Italian versions - Italy made these in both brass and steel cases (both SMI and BPD are known)

These are, from left, German steel case (the case is a bit shorter than standard as they used the bullets from the MG151 which has a copper driving band, so they allowed for that), Spain, Poland & Japan.


#14

!!
You look to be a serious collector !!!
Thanks
JP


#15

From a guy. But perhaps he mistakes with other east european countries like Poland or Romania.[/quote]
The Romanian Air Force used the 13.2mm FN Browning in some fighters during WW2.


#16

Here is the Romanian one on the left

Regards,
Vince


#17

[quote=“strakv”]Here is the Romanian one on the left
Regards,
Vince[/quote]

Thank you very much for this info
JP


#18

Hello!

I


#19

Jean-pierre

Here are the drawings I have:

Kynoch
BK46-100
BK46-101
BK43-98
BK43-99
BK 82
BK82-69A
BK101-16A
BK119-123A
BK167-139

At the outbreak of war Britain was considering using the 13.2 Browning
for aircraft armament and did considerable work on the ammunition. I have the following British military drawings:

DD(L)10773 Nose fused explosive 4.4.1940
DD(L)10124 Solid steel AP
R.D. No.5661 Base fused explosive 30.9.1939
8389 13.2 exp. Tracer 13.10.1939
8390 13.2 Exp.tracer body 13.10 1939
8391 13.2 Exp. Tracer cup 13.10.1939
8393 13.2 Fuze Exp.tracer 11.10.1939
8875A 13.2 AP with relieved body 16.1.1940

All these drawings are titled 13.2mm Browning.

You have all of them?

I also have some Kynoch loading data and they filled a large contract of Service (ball), tracer and AP for Poland in March 1933.

Regards
TonyE


#20

I would like to thanks all the people who posted info.
Please send me by pm a short message telling me excatly what you collect.
I will try to find some drawing of interest for them.

Thanks again
JP