13x92SR


#1

I have been asked by a friend if i can help with some info on a 13x92SR headstamp. The question is about the year of production of the round, and if anyone can tell me what the other markings mean. Thanks in advance…paul.

Headstamp

12 O’clock = Pf
3 O’clock = M
6 O’clock = 359d
9 O’clock = P


#2

According to CartWinPro, The “P” stands for the manufacturer: Polte. The whole company name is A. Polte Armaturen- und Maschinenfabrik A. -G. in Magdeburg Germany. The citation for this code is Preuss, Johannes (2002). Zahlencode-System des Heeres van 1925 bis 1940. Schwabisch Hall: Journal-Verlag Schwend GmbH. 3-935210-19-1, page 98.

The “M” supposedly stands for the Factory. The citation for that is Wolfgang, Kern. Das Tankgewehr Mauser M1918 (The anti-tank Mauser Rifle M1918). ISBN 3-933481-06-6. I’m sorry I don’t have more information for you, but I’ve attached an image of the example in CartWinPro.


#3

Paul, the “P” stands for Polte and the “M” for Magdeburg, the first in reference to its founder, Eugen Polte, and the second to its location. The full company name when this cartridge was produced is as mentioned above by Warren, but the “A.” is not part of the correct designation.

The Pf 3519d marking stands for the drawing number, which would date approx. from 1933-35.

Regards,

Fede


#4

Many thanks warrenem and to Fede. I have passed the info on…paul.


#5

And last but not least this is a MG round and not for AT rifles.


#6

As far as I know, all Polte ammunition drawings hat Pf numbers until the system was changed around mid 1942 (to the 7,9P-1 format).
I assume Pf stands for Patronenfabrik, because the other part of Polte was Armaturenfabrik, producing heavy valves, fittings etc. for waterworks, hydroelectric plants and so on.


#7

Is there any difference (apart from the date of manufacture) between this round and the WW1 MG/ATR round?


#8

Many years ago I had this round in my collection.
A fellow collector told me to be careful with this round because it contained Phosphor and I should be careful because these bullets could start leaking.

The Pf on the head stamp should mean AP Phosphor load.

Also described in the book Military Cartridges Part 1 from J Lenseling / W. D. de Hek

Rgds


#9

Dutch, the 13mm API “smoke tracer” or “PmK” as designated in Germany is easily recognizable by it’s distinct projectile shape (“fat” style) and the presence of a solder spot on the cylindrical part.
The headstamp was never a load indicator and I have seen plenty of those with the drawing number which were ordinary AP or AP-T. I think all specialized in this caliber can confirm.
If a “PmK” projectile is kept inside the case neck (shoved back) and the solder spot is below the case mouth nothing will happen when the projectile is not stored in bright sun or near heat sources (as this will cause the WP to expand and push out the solder plug - simple physics).
When in doubt store all such loads inside a metal can with a lid on.

The Lenselink/Hek books represented the (much more limited) knowledge of their time which was quite different from what we know today (and speaking for myself; which is still little in my view).


#10

What Dutch mentions refers in my view to the rifle caliber “Pr” of WW1, which are of a somewhat different design from PmK, having no AP core. Otto Morawietz wrote (around 1940) that they tended to leak (around the base plug) and because of this shortly after WW1 it was decided to destroy all stocks.


#11

EOD,

The solder spot by these cartridges is above the case neck.

451kr.


#12

Dutch, this headstamp marking is not related to the cartridge loading and correspond to the Zeichnungsnummern (Drawing Numbers) used by Polte’s small arms ammunition branch until 1942. It is also found in several experimental cartridges, most in 7.9 and 13 mm caliber, like the unbelted 13x64 headstamped P Pf M 5455 which is probably the easiest to find.


#13

451kr, thank you for correcting me, it is too long ago I saw them. I think there were different types and one had the spot “inside”.

Fede, the drawing numbers also appear on 20x105 MG204. Then without the “Pf” prefix already.


#14

I also posted this on the bocn site and a answer said that ;-
P = Polte
M = Magdeburg
Pf = Pforschung (research)
3519d = Experimental code number - the “d” being the 4th variant.

Developed in the mid 1920’s as an incendiary for the TuF-MG and known as the TR-Patrone (Tank-Rauch or tank-smoke)

I bet the guy who this round belongs to never thought he would get back so much info…thanks to all for your help…paul.


#15

Sorry, but research is Forschung, not Pforschung. But it is correct that “d” in this context is the fourth change to drawing 3519.


#16

Also, this case can’t date from the mid 1920’s because this drawing number didn’t existed until approx. 1933-35.

Regarding the meaning of “Pf” used for small arms ammunition (< 3.7 cm), I’m not aware of any documented explanation, neither for the “PN” used by for conical barrel ammunition and components.


#17

The N in PN is usually assumed to mean Neufeld, former assistant/co-worker of Gerlich. At Polte, Neufeld was in charge of conical-barrel developments.


#18

Below, first picture is a 1918 AT load and the second a MG load of the thirties. the bullet shape is clearly different.



#19

Great info. I just found an unfired case only this week.
I was wondering what the headstamp numbers meant. Thanks.