14,5x114 identification needed

Hello,
Below are typical russian WWII made 14,5*114 cartridges.
The first one is a B32 for comparison and the second one as a small black bullet attracting the magnet and seems to haven’t got a core, which kind of load is it?
the bullet diameter is 0,64" for a lenght of 5,72" while the B32 is 0,59" with a lenght of 6,12".
the weight of the cartridge is 2901,27 grs while the B32 is 3101,89 grs.

Just had the weight in grammes:
188 grammes for the blackened metal bullet instead of 201 grammes for the B-32.

To what I can see it looks much like a self made desktop ornament or so.

Maybe you could be true, but I’m questionning about the fact that the bullet is fitting perfectly into the case and consolidated at the case mouth and the powder wasn’t removed out of the case

Can you show us images of the single proj. - in particular from the back?

As the original proj. jackets tend do badly rust (away) I would not be surprised if someone made something he considered to be a replica. Someone with a lathe can make one within a few minutes in any diameter desired.
In 30+ years I have never seen such a proj. on the 14.5x114. Of course I am just about likeliness and not about me knowing it all.

Just my two cents worth. The case looks a little weathered and I am thinking that this round may have been a battle field pick up or even a relic. The projectile may have been corroded or maybe the projectile was removed to comply with regulations that ban armor piercing ammo. My guess is that an oversized projectile was lathe turned and dimensioned to give a good fit in the case that had its crimping removed in the process of pulling the projectile.

Thank you both for your answers
EOD, unfortunately I can’t show pictures of the back of the projectile, don’t want to pull it as I don’t know what it is.
If someone try to make a replica projectile with a lathe, I believe he used a full metal piece and not only a metal jacket.

[quote=“laurent”]
If someone try to make a replica projectile with a lathe, I believe he used a full metal piece and not only a metal jacket.[/quote]

Laurent, this would be a rational thought but unfortunately I find daily that most people are not having the ability to think this way.
You would be surprised what materials people have used to replace a missing projectile and what means they used to get a piece of material into the respective shape. Mankind is very inventive (and sometimes weird) when it comes to stuffing vacant holes.

Yes, who knows…
So I will let this cartridge as unidentified.

Nothing new about this cartridge?

Laurent, if the bullet diameter is .64" (16.25 mm), then it is very unlikely that this is a projectile meant to be fired in a 14.5x114 caliber gun.

Regards,

Fede

Hello Fede,
I have to admit that you must be right!
I’m still questionning that there’s no rest of crimping on the case mouth, maybe a reload of a blank cartridge…
Hope to be able to go at the ECRA to show this cartridge to others collectors.
Besst regards
Laurent

I’m resurrecting this post in case something new had turn out. The fact that the bullet diameter is 0,05" larger than a normal AP core bullet should not be a problem if this one has no core?!

0.05" (1.27 mm) really is a lot in small arms.
As Fede already pointed out, your bullet of 16.26 mm diameter is obviously not intended for a barrel that has a bore diameter of 14.50 mm and a groove diameter of 14.93 mm. Because the case neck also has to be larger in diameter, the case will not fit a dimensionally correct chamber.

As you said the case neck is a bit larger but not as large as we could expect. As a picture is better than 1000 words, I prefer to post pictures wich show all measurments, hope it will help:
14%2C5%20(1)
14%2C5%20(2)

From the measurements you posted,
case neck wall thickness of an ordinary 14.5 mm case is 0.77 mm,
while that of the cartridge in question is 0.20 mm.
For comparison, ordinary rifle cartridges like 7.62 NATO or German 7.9 mm have about 0.4 mm wall thickness at the neck.

Yes, unless if the bullet’s part inside the case have a lower diameter…?

reminds me of an old post about like 14.5x114 whaling rounds. those had a similar thing

Thank you, I find the post:


Could be the bullet used by soviet whalers, who knows…