15.2x28.4 R Krnka


#1

Hi all

I’m looking for information about this cartridge. If I’m correct, this is a 15.2x28.4mm R Krnka.

subefotos.com/ver/?741742086d1b7 … ac266o.jpg

I would appreciate any information.

Saludos


#2

Are you asking about the middle example in the photo?
Could you please give some dimensions: the rim, head, case length, case mouth, & bullet diameters.
I’m not aware of a French made Krnka & the middle example has a French headstamp. The one on the right has a non-traditional bullet style, if it is a Krnka.

hope that is of help


#3

Yes, the middle cartridge is Gevelt from 1878. The dimensions are:

  • cartridge length: 42mm
  • case length: 28.4mm
    . Rim diám. 16.8mm
  • case diam. 15.6mm

I’m asking for both cartrdge, I belive both are the same cartrdge from different manufacturer.

Thank a in advance


#4

Daniel, the “Krnka” designation became known by Fred Datig, but to my knowledge no Krnka rifle chambering this cartridge has been found so far. Variations exist with no headstamp and headstamped 3 / G / 77 / Mx /, 2 / G / 78 / Mx /, G / 4 / 78 / Mx /, and o o o. As you may know, a Gévelot tin box of these cartridges was found by José Luis Rubio in late 1950’s or early 1960’s. Saludos, Fede.


#5

Hi Fede
That is great information. Here I was thinking all the headstamped Krnka ammunition was Russian!
This is a great place to learn!


#6

Pete, what I mean to say is that the “Krnka” designation was mentioned by Datig but no proof has been found to comfirm his assumption was correct. You may want to take a look at Datig’s Vol. III p. 80 and Hoyem’s Vol. 2 p. 197.


#7

Hi Fede
After looking at Hoyem pg197 I see what your saying. He states “tentatively identified” & that “the case dimensions are smaller than the known specimens of Krnka rifle cartridges”.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I have this Gevelot product in my collection (4 77 date [@ 9 & 3] so add to the checklist) & when I asked E.L. Scranton about it, his thoughts were that it was possibility for a Roberts conversion firearm. I’m afraid I can’t recall if he stated anything further to that conclusion or that was the total of his statement. Perhaps he thought it was because of the smaller case dimensions?


#8

Pete, I remember reading it could have been made for a Roberts conversion (maybe in one of your sales?) and this possibility has its merits. Most of this cartridges were found in Brazil and this country is known to have bought 5000 .58 caliber Roberts rifles in 1867. Rimfire cartridges for these rifles were bought as NPE cases and then loaded locally, but their quality was terrible and these gave very bad results during 1868, the first year of the Triple Alliance War against Paraguay. These cartridges are the so-called “.58 Mont Storm, South American load” and have profound and irregular bullet crimps.

During the third term of president Luís Alves de Lima e Silva (1875-78) it was ordered that all rifles in service had to be modified to center fire, including Spencer and Winchester Model 1866 rifles. Several types of center fire cartridges were made locally and in Europe for these last two weapons, but a center fire version of the .58 Roberts cartridge is not known to have been made or imported to Brazil. Also, during 1870-71, after the war was over, at least 1000 of those Roberts rifles and thousands of cartridges were sold to Argentina.

Said this, it is possible that these have been made for a center fire converted Roberts rifle, but all of those I have examined here (about 5) and those reported by Brazilian collectors are original rimfire rifles. Also, its dimensions are much smaller than those of the .58 Roberts (either RF or CF variations), which would imply not only a center fire conversion but a modified chamber.

Thanks for updating my checklist.

Regards,

Fede


#9

Really thank you Pete and Fede. I’m trying to get more information, I will share as soon as I get something.

Fede, in the AACAM manual Tomo I second edition from 1982 there is a cartridge with similar (but not the same) dimensions. It is the .58 Corto (short). Just wandering if we are talking about the same cartridge.

Muchas gracias