15x101mm

Hi, I got this about 1988. I can’t turn the bullet, but can feel it rock. Would this be the correct bullet for this case? And is it for the Czechoslovakian ZB-60 MG or something else?

15mm hs jpg

15mm bt top

markings
Thanks, Dan

Dan, yes, gun iD and projectile are correct.
This is the shortened case made to accept a 15mm MG151 projectile as the driving bans here is outside the case neck. Means the neck got shortened and reduced in diameter.
The projectile you have is the very correct one here as it has the appropriate markings for this case since it has the navy acceptance (no condition but still the case), the “Lü” (navy arsenal Lübeck) and I assume it has 2 fine grooves (more lines) in the boat tail of the projectile.

Unfortunately the proj. got repainted and there incorrectly. Might be worth to strip it off the paint and leave it as it is.

Thanks EOD,
So originally for the ZB-60, and now for the (15mm) MG 151.
I don’t paint or strip them, and being I can read it, I’ll leave it for the next guy.
Dan

Dan, no! Not for the MG151, maybe I was not very clear.
The projectile was taken from the MG151 round (way different case) and assumingly modified so it could be used on the 15mm ZB-60 as the original projectiles used had own (Czech designed) projectiles which had the driving bands inside the case.
As war proceeded and the Germans started making ammunition for the ZB-60 they of course tried to avoid to manufacture (even) more “non-standard” ammunition and used readily available designs which were in production anyways.

OK, now I get it.
Thanks,
Dan

Just to illustrate the issue, on the left the Czech original design with driving bands inside the case and right the modified cartridge with the German projectile taken from the MG151 cartridge.

Zwischenablage

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Great, thanks! Do you have a case length, for these two pictured by chance?
Dan

hello
i think the other had 105mm case lenght
now i understand the “history” of these two cartridges

Some cartridge photos to compare.
German 15x96 MG 151/15
German 15x101 Besa
Two Czech 15x104 Besa.

Projectile view of the MG 151/15 with nice original paint. It is hard to find good ones.

MG 151:15

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As Ron indicated the Czech case is 104mm long.

Ron, great image. I never saw the Czech HE witha yellow band on!
Do you have a close up shot of the projectile? Does it come off the case?
Also I never saw a 15x101 “German” model with a grey-green case. Could you show the headstamp maybe?

How far do I extend this thread. These are still Besa cartridges.

The German case is definitely not the dark lacquer but the normal greyish one.
The headstamp is shown.

The czech projectiles show the practice tracer? No markings.
The yellow band is bored right through to the fuze and has AO on the fuze.
15A 27 / 40 on the projectile. I hope these photos help.

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Ron, excellent images, thanks a lot!
The yellow banded projectile was made under German administration.
This may explain the yellow band and could be a Germano-Czech hybrid as for markings.

The hs of the greyish case is also great reference. As said, the first I see.

Good work ron and EOD!
So what is your guess as to why the two case finishes? Would one be earlier and one later, or for different applications?
Thanks, Dan

Dan, there is no explanation for the color as it has no technical meaning. Just depended on the factory which supplied the laquer. I know 1941, 42 and 43 with the typical brown laquer. Your grey-green 1942 is very unusual on this caliber (often seen on others though).

Thanks EOD.
(And mine is brown, and ron’s is gray green.)
Dan

Dan, sorry for confusing your brown one with Ron’s grey-green one!

a nice exemple of a 15x101 with original paint on bullet:

Thanks laurent, Nice!


15x101 laurent HS
Dan

another example

IMG_0002

Michel

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Thanks Michel, an early one. Do you know the meaning of the X? (Probably 10, and not Proof, correct?)
Dan)