15x96 MG151/15 headstamps question


#1

Hi, I would ask you to decrypt this manufacturers from 15x96 MG151/15.

What does mean numbers 23 and 10 after DWM ?

Regards. Ave


#2

2nd one was made by Westfaelische Anhaltische Sprengstoff AG, Oranienburg plant, the 4th one made by Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke A.G., Witte & Co., Werk Schwerte/Ruhr, Westfalen. I have the others too but am not near my sources.


#3

Hmmm … “Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke A.G., Witte & Co., Werk Schwerte/Ruhr, Westfalen” is a plating firm, not manufacture.


#4

These are Luftwaffe codes that were used for a short time. They have a different meaning than the well known lowercase letters.
Alas, I have no list. Neither the book by Preuss nor that by Heidler has them.

I only know that Polte, Magdeburg (aux) had Luftwaffe code BT.


#5

Probably a stupid question but I am not all that bright. The Luftamt in the first three is the same, does that not mean that they would all be from the same factory (unless they has an inspector that travelled)?


#6

Howdy Ave

Could the 23 & 10 numbers just be as simple as a lot number?

That the headstamp style changed could only mean they changed the style between 10 & 23?

Both are from 1939 so perhaps a different case drawing line was used & so the bunter styles are different? Perhaps a different location? This was I believe(?), when this caliber would have been prohibited?

Or perhaps the style was ‘after’ the British where the date in 4-digits vs 2-digits meant a different usage? or perhaps even weapon?

Just advancing thoughts about possibilities, don’t know just WAGs.


#7

Will, this is a valid observation and by no means a silly question.

It could be that the official in charge of this Bauaufsicht branch was responsible not only for one factory, but for one or two others in the same district. On the other hand, it is possible that he was transferred to a factory in a different part of Germany, taking the identification number, assigned to him personally, with him.


#8

One inspector could have several sub-inspectors under him, working on different factories in the area or branch of munitions. This was the case with several builders of Mauser rifles. Just a thought.
Soren


#9

Will, probably you’re right. I found a few other examples with same Luftamt numbers, and indeed is compliance.

For example [54]:

“P490” in 1941 rename to “wg” therefore “BK” is the same manufacture (Hasag, Hugo Schneider AG, Altenburg plant)

other …


P345 - BT - avu [67] - Silva Metallwerke GmbH, Genthin


AT - BM - dov [71] - (AT probably) - Waffenwerke Bruenn, Wsetin plant, Czechoslovakia


RWS - CH - dnf [61] - Rheinisch-Westfälische Sprengstoff A.G., Werk Nürnberg-Stadeln


CK - kam [102] - Hasag, Eisen-u. Metallwerke GmbH., Werk Skarzysko Kamienna, Polen


BS - eek [75] - Deutsche Star-Kugelhalter GmbH, Schweinfurt


CB - eeo [113] - Deutsche Waffe- u. Minitionsfabriken AG, Posen plant

and finally

Considering the style of headstamp (years) I made this division
DWM23 - CF - edq [66] - Deutsche Waffen- u. Munitionsfabriken AG, Luebeck- Schlutup
DWM10 - AB - edq

My guesses seem very probable, but I would like to someone confirm this theory by literature.
Also remains unclear meaning of the numbers 23, 10 and signature CA [104].
Regards.Ave


#10

Excellent piece of research. Congratulations.

Regarding Silva, Genthin (part of Polte) we have a document that seems to contradict BT. There is an internal letter of 15 June 1940 by Polte, Magdeburg, that says:
all Luftwaffe calibres are to be marked = BT
all Heer and Marine are to be marked = aux
(Cited in the book on codes by Preuss.)
I rather do not know what to make of it, because your conclusions otherwise are very convincing.

P.S.: Thinking of it, Genthin is not very far from Magdeburg. So it is quite possible that this acceptance official worked at both factories.


#11

I have taken a look at my examples, here are two that are interesting to the story:

Both of these have the “66” code. Possibly 104 & 113 were other inspectors that worked there later?

There is also DWM 1 as a number that I don’t know about:


#12

Ave, the identification of the cases manufacturers is correct, except for BT which is Polte, Magdeburg. The code CA corresponds to edq.

I’m not sure if there is documentation mentioning all these codes but the identification has been done in the past using this same comparison method. To summarize:

AB = edq
AT = dov
BK = wg
BS = eek
BT = aux
CA = edq
CB = eeo
CF = edq
CH = dnf
CK = kam


#13

I don’t collect calibres of 20mm and larger so I can’t really say about BT. I have BT on three cases, all 7.92x81B MG 131 HV. Of these, only one has a luftamt (experimental ammo did not get them, as a rule) and it is 67 which corresponds with Silva. I also have an exerzier with 67 which has the Polte “man-with-flag” logo, so definitely Polte. All the Silva cases, avu, have the luftamt 172 on this calibre.

name hs dwm load comments bullet manufacturer
7.92X81 MG 131/8 HIGH VEL EXERZIER STEEL CHROMED CASE RED PLASTIC POLTE
7.92X81 MG 131/8 HIGH VEL avu 23b 41 SMK-L.SPUR Br CASE, ELECTRIC Pr BLACK TIP avu
7.92X81 MG 131/8 HIGH VEL B.T. 2 40 SMK Br CASE, ELECTRIC Pr SMK BT
7.92X81 MG 131/8 HIGH VEL B.T. 2 40 1 SMK-H COPPER PLATED STEEL CASE, ELECTRIC Pr BLACK BULLET BT
7.92X81 MG 131/8 HIGH VEL B.T. 2 40 PZ PATRONE Br CASE, ELECTRIC Pr, COPPER DRIVING BAND, badly rusted bullet STEEL BT
7.92X81 MG 131/8 HIGH VEL wg 1 41 X CASE STEEL CASE, BRASS ELECTRIC Pr HASAG
7.92X81 MG 131/8 HIGH VEL avu 19l 41 B-PATR. Br CASE, ELECTRIC Pr black body/copper tip avu