18.84 x 57 R W


#1

A friend of me ask me for information of an 18.84 x 57 R W


#2

Hoyem list a 18,84 x 57R Wanzl-Albini Model 1871 as “Wall gun cartridge”,but I have never known how translate “Wall gun” in italian.I think it was a kind of heavy fort or fortress defence gun.

It has a straight case.The sample pictured in the hoyem book has “one piece copper case with external copper primer…three groove lead bullet…no hds”


#3

It also has a mention on the ECRA Data (Ammunition)viewer.


#4

It was a rampart gun used at the fortress artillery. The gun was used on a big tripod because of heavy recoil. The breech was very similar to the US trapdoor system.

The bullets are cast and the cartridge was loaded by hand in the factory.
Every cartridge was lubed and store in a cardboard tube, 10 cartridges packed in a paper wrapped packet.


#5

Thanks, all of you. Forget to check “Hoyem”. There is a lot of knowledge here on the forum, thanks, Jan


#6

Genkideskan,
very interesting pictures!!
What are the last two cartridges in the photo and the drawing?

I have recognized:

18,84 wanzl albini
13,9 wanzl
11 x 41R werndl M67
11 x 36R werndl carbine M67
11,15 x 58R werndl M77
??
??


#7

The left is the Werndl M1877 carbine and the right the M 1882 carbine cartridge. The M 1882 has a somewhat smaller powder charge and a brass case.


#8

They look like improvements of the early werndl M67 cartridge with a heavier bullet


#9

Pivi, get the book “Le Armi del Impero Asburgico, 1790?-1918” di Marco Morin (ed. Olimpia?) in Italian circa 1978-80.

Very good description of all small arms and cartridges, from the Air Rifles of 1790s thru to the M95 etc of WW I. Includes copies of Colour Plates from 1800s, and extracts from Von Kromar ( 1900 circa).

I don’t have my copy here to give the exact details, but it is great for the early cartridges.

The Wanzl-Albini utilizes Wanzl’s design of Large rimfire cartridge made of Copper, and the Albini patent breech-lock system ( Italian Naval officer) which was used by Belgium to convert its Muzzle Loaders to 11mm, by Braendlin Armory in Britain to make a batch of Albini rifles in .577 Snider for South Australia,
It is a “trapdoor” type of Lock, but totally different from the Springfield Allen designs. The Albini uses a central firing Pin in line with the axis of the barrel, and Not an “offset hammer” driving an angled firing pin, as in the Allin designs, etc.
There is still the external hammer, but it is connected to the firing Pin by an arm, which also acts as a Breech block lock upon firing.
Of the trapdoor patents (Allin, Berdan(Spanish and Russian) & Albini, the Albini is the strongest.
The Albini also uses a double extractor ( Allin and Berdan used a single-tooth extractor, which often failed, tearing thru the case rims).

The “Wall Gun” or “Rampart Gun” can best be translated into Italian by
"Fucilone da Muraglione", but if there is a definite Italian Military term for “Rampart”, then that is the term to use.
These were the 18th and 19th century equivalent of today’s .50 cal Sniper or “anti-materiel” rifle…Wall Guns were used to take out the besieging enemy’s artillery (pieces and crews)
The Chinese Wall guns are called “Jingal Guns” ( a British corruption of the Chinese term.)…The Chinese models were simply “upscaled” versions of existing Muskets or later, Bolt actions, firing a variety of cartridges from .60 Gatling to 1 inch Nordenfeldt.

regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#10

Here is a mentioned australian gun -

militaryrifles.com/Australia … Albini.htm

heres a belgian

militaryrifles.com/Belgium/Albini.htm