1914 Winchester Red Label 44-40

Picked up a couple “1914” red label 44-40 smokeless powder boxes.

1914
“Lead”
15gr Dupont No.2
200.6gr
Dia. - .425" (slightly squeezed…maybe .4255")
Bullet Length - .610"
Seating Depth - .325"
Case Length - 1.305"
AOL - 1.592









237498179_2695961330707129_4710512171096158465_n

235040466_682426596487062_6738758140187728914_n

238418831_550478656388053_8362261683931988416_n

LEFT - my 43-214A 215gr custom requested design by Accurate Molds, a modified Lyman’s 427098 design
RIGHT - Winchester’s 200gr lead.


3 Likes

Nice box. When was the archaic “bullet calibre - gun powder amount” ammo designation dropped? Which year/decade? Also, did Europeans ever use that system? And why was it abandoned? Because of smokeless powder?

1 Like

Actually, the system still exists. Is not .44-40 ammunition still made today? The original cartridges were loaded with 40 grains of black powder. And the system “spilled over” into the smokeless era. Think .30-40 Krag and .30-30 Winchester, to name two. Loaded with 40 and 30 grains of smokeless powder, respectively. And, they were not known by these designations back when they appeared. The .30-40 Krag was known as Caliber .30, .30 Army or .30 U.S.G. and the .30-30 as the .30 W.C.F.

The earliest Winchester .30 Caliber box known by me, from about 1893.

W.R.A.Co. .30 U.S.G. headstamp with 220 gr. Full Patch steel jacketed bullet.

Randy

2 Likes

Randy, you are right. But when new ammo is invented nowadays, it is not called .50-148-200 or alike. So would .30-40 Krag be one of the last?

I am really surprised to see a Geman language(!!!) version of “If you want the most reliable ammunition, ask for Winchester and look for the W on the box.” on a U.S. box. Due to the strong dollar, U.S. guns and ammunition were always extremely expensive in Germany.

1 Like

Great question. Maybe some more folks will join in.

As you already know the 44 Henry types, as well as the 44-40, were referred to as 44/100. Seems Winchester settled for the “44 Cal” by 1876. Winchester started headstamping the 44-40 as the “44 W.C.F” by 1884. Because of Marlin and UMC, the 44-40 designation came out by 1886 and used by Winchester on their 44 “Winchester High Velocity” box in 1903. It’s not real cut and dry because this is just for the 44-40. Other cartridges could vary in dates etc.

1 Like

The Winchester Red W Cleaning Preparations is very cool, never seen the like, thanks!

1 Like

Vlad, here’s a British example of this marking system, an early Eley Brothers .380” centre fire with 10 grain BP load and 124 grain bullet: 380-10-124, Pete.

2 Likes

What a neat box!!! Was it for export to US?

Not as far as I know, I think it was intended for the local market in the UK (which was GB and the whole of Ireland at the time these would’ve been made), but would need confirmation from the experts in this field.

1 Like