2 Interesting Boxes of Ammo

This is the mother box of a .41 Colt Short with a heeled bullet that I posted a few weeks back. Can anyone give me a date window on this box?

Rear of box.

This box of 45-70 is very nice and all the 20rds are original to the box.


Your .41 SC should have been made from about 1912 to 1916, after which the company name was Remington Arms-Union Metallic Cartridge Company, Inc. The split UMC and Remington logos on the top label would have appeared on the earliest boxes made during this period.

Thanks Guy. I had speculated a bit later, after the war, but I like the news.

Guy–You are correct for the dates of the UMC box, but not quite correct for the name change. On 14 January 1916, the name was changed from Remington Arms-Union Metallic Cartridge Company to The Remington Arms Union Metallic Cartridge Company Incorporated. (Note the addition of “The” and the removal of the hyphen.)

Here is a list of the name changes and dates for Remington. Where a day and month are given, it is from the official court papers for the name change.

E.Remington & Sons

E. Remington and Sons, Inc.

8 July 1887
Remington Arms and Ammunition Company, Inc.

16 March 1911
Remington Arms-Union Metallic Cartridge Company

14 January 1916
The Remington Arms Union Metallic Cartridge Company, Incorporated

1 May 1920
Remington Arms Company, Inc.

31 October 1933
Remington Arms Company, Inc (Remington-DuPont)

21 October 1993
Remington Arms Company, Inc (DuPont sold it’s interest to Clayton-Dubilier-Rice)

Shotmeister–Your Peters box dates from 1950-1962. Go here for a guide to dating Peters boxes:


I believe the more significant part of the name change in 1916 was the addition of Incorporated or Inc to the end of the company name.

“Guy-You are right, of course, I should have 'Incorporated” appended onto the 1916-19 name. That is my mistake. On the boxes the “Incorporated” is almost always printed in small type under the rest of the name, instead of at the end of the name. I will edit my list above to correct the error. Thanks for pointing it out.

I believe I was getting the two names The Remington Arms Union Metallic Cartridge Company, Incorporated and Remington Arms Company, Inc confused, and had assumed the Inc could be also found on the earlier boxes. I also missed the absence of the dash between Remington Arms and Union Metallic Cartridge Company, Incorporated - I have some of the post 1916 boxes in my collection listed with the dash. Now you’re going to make me have to get rained on running out to the ‘bunker’ to check them.

Guy–I won’t say never (we both know where that leads), but I, myself, have never seen a 1916-1919 box with "Inc.) I have only seen it spelled out completely, in small type below the rest of the name.

While you are checking your boxes, PLEASE look for any BLACK POWDER Revolver boxes by Remington that date before 1946. I badly need scans for the Remington Box Dating Project for the IAA Homepage. I have lots of scans, thanks to John Moss, of SMOKELESS boxes, but, since he only collects Auto Pistol, he has no Black Powder boxes.

Ron, now you mention that, I was thinking the other day: Has there ever been any auto pistol designs for blackpowder cartridges?

Falcon–Not that I know of. Black Powder gums up the works too much for automatics.


The first successful automatic pistols were perfected at the very end of the 19th Century. The designs were based on new cartridges, also developed by the inventors, rather than trying to develop a weapon that would operate with existing cartridges. But had they chosen to use an existing black powder cartridge, I’m sure the likes of Borchardt and Browning could have worked out the details.


I didn’t think I had heard of any autos using blackpowder, but at the same time, I didn’t want to say for sure that there weren’t.