2" mortar ballistite cartridges


#1

Does anyone know what journal these were written in? I can remember or find the article.

Does anyone have any info on these cartridges???

Any assistance is greatly appreciated…


#2

[quote=“Missing Something”]Does anyone have any info on these cartridges???
…[/quote]

If your ctge has a British hstp I can help you.
Mine have no hole of course in the case and have word ICI in red on the tube.
The loading is just a big primer looking like a detonator.
Is it that ?
If yes I can post pictures.
JP


#3

Sounds right, pictures would be great. Thanks,

Craig


#4

[quote=“Missing Something”]Sounds right, pictures would be great. Thanks,

Craig[/quote]
OK, I will post them on Monday.
JP


#5

Here are the info on mine.
Brass base,
yellow cardboard case,
brown carboard cork,
I. I.C.I. painted in red on the body,
/ 41 231 written in black on the cork

Hstp : 28 ELEY-KYNOCH 28 ICI(in circle).


#6

All 2" mortar Cartridges are based on the 28 bore cartridge case All were rolled crimped. Although the 2" mortar round came self contained with a ballistite cartridge, the cartridges were available in boxes of 25. These were available like this for the use in practice rounds. The first type of cartridges made, had a central tube of gun powder that ran through the middle of the Ballistite in the cartridge near enough its full length. These cartridges were known as the Mark 1 cartridges that had a 47 or 55 grain Ballistite charge. Due to the way the gunpowder was arranged in an axial chamber or the tube in the cartridge this caused the tails of the bomb to split as these were made from a different type of alloy to the normal mazak or monkey metal used for making the tail units. I think that the Mark 1 cartridge design caused the Ballistite to combust more quickly causing higher pressures as the Mark 2 Ballistite cartridges are of the same grain weight. The Mark 2 design was arranged with the gunpowder at the base above the cartridge primer with the Ballistite on top of the gunpowder. Both Mark 1 and 2 had the same gunpowder weight at 15 grains. With the Mark 2 cartridge the problem of split tails was virtually eliminated, although there were problems with spit tails due to being used in extream cold conditions. This lead to the metal tails being used. When i started collecting 2" mortar rounds i thought there was just the basic HE bomb, smoke round, signal and parachute illum round, how wrong was i.
With the Ballistite cartridges there are quite a few to collect including the bomb throwing cartridges that hold 18 grains of balistite, these are used in tanks for throwing the bomb at short distances. As well as the 47, 55 grain Ballistite cartridges there is a 50 grain cartridge that eventually succeeded the two. There is also a 73 grain Ballistite cartridge that was used in the signal success mortar bomb. If you decided to collect 2" mortar items there is a huge amount to collect. I do have lots of drawings etc but don’t have a scanner for all to see.


#7

Thanks for the info.
The ctge I have is therefore a Mark I.

I don’t know when they switched from MK I to MK II, but during the war they were still using MKI because I found a box of them coming from this time period.

JP


#8

[quote=“BMG.50”]All 2" mortar Cartridges are based on the 28 bore cartridge case All were rolled crimped. Although the 2" mortar round came self contained with a ballistite cartridge, the cartridges were available in boxes of 25. These were available like this for the use in practice rounds. The first type of cartridges made, had a central tube of gun powder that ran through the middle of the Ballistite in the cartridge near enough its full length. These cartridges were known as the Mark 1 cartridges that had a 47 or 55 grain Ballistite charge. Due to the way the gunpowder was arranged in an axial chamber or the tube in the cartridge this caused the tails of the bomb to split as these were made from a different type of alloy to the normal mazak or monkey metal used for making the tail units. I think that the Mark 1 cartridge design caused the Ballistite to combust more quickly causing higher pressures as the Mark 2 Ballistite cartridges are of the same grain weight. The Mark 2 design was arranged with the gunpowder at the base above the cartridge primer with the Ballistite on top of the gunpowder. Both Mark 1 and 2 had the same gunpowder weight at 15 grains. With the Mark 2 cartridge the problem of split tails was virtually eliminated, although there were problems with spit tails due to being used in extream cold conditions. This lead to the metal tails being used. When i started collecting 2" mortar rounds i thought there was just the basic HE bomb, smoke round, signal and parachute illum round, how wrong was i.
With the Ballistite cartridges there are quite a few to collect including the bomb throwing cartridges that hold 18 grains of balistite, these are used in tanks for throwing the bomb at short distances. As well as the 47, 55 grain Ballistite cartridges there is a 50 grain cartridge that eventually succeeded the two. There is also a 73 grain Ballistite cartridge that was used in the signal success mortar bomb. If you decided to collect 2" mortar items there is a huge amount to collect. I do have lots of drawings etc but don’t have a scanner for all to see.[/quote]

Thanks for the info BMG.50, I appreciate it.

I have a British Mark 8* mortar. Been doing research. :D


#9

Your Mk 8* differs to the early models as the breech and trigger mech area was beefed up as earlier models tended to show cracks in the webbed area after constant use. A new casting was made to over come this.
How much of a 2" collection do you have.


#10

I thought ABL is an abriviation for the belgian army?


#11

I think A.B.L on the mortar is the company who manufactured this piece and the 51 is the date, so i believe.


#12

That’s correct. A.B.L. is a company (I haven’t found that info out yet) and '51 is the year of manufacture.

All I have so far is the transport chest and a 1943 dated fired illumination round. I have found a part cleaning kit in Holland and a Training mortar kit (6 training bombs and a carrier) in the US.

This is my first (small) mortar. I also have a Czech VZ-52 - 82mm mortar as well :D


#13

These mortar shells were also made by Dominion Cartridge Co.
The casewall print is–
On the 28 ga=2in M.L.MORTAR 55 GR BALLISTITE MK II Cll/C
Topwad=39 10-42
On the 12ga=3 IN.M.L.MORTAR 91 GR.HERC.81 MM MK.1 C.S.F./C.
Topwad=6-42 LOT 62


#14

Pardon another stupid question from me. Am I correct in assuming that the rows of holes in the paper portion of the shell occur when it is fired, and are not on any unfired rounds for this system?


#15

Yes, that is why these cartridges must be made with paper cases. An unfired round resembles a regular shotshell.

I have wondered before what would happen if one of these was fired in a regular shotgun (not something I intend to try).


#16

Quite a few years ago i was attempting to write a book on the 2" mortar, time and family stopped me from doing so. So i have quite a lot of info on this subject.
Because of the high pressures caused with the MK1 Ballistite cartridges of 47 grains they could still be used in the early tail units made of aluminium silicon alloy that were made up to Sept 1940 rather than Mazak tails made after this date. By making extra flash holes from the standard 18 to 24 these 47grain MK 1 cartridges could be used with no problems. Later Mazak tails were marked onto the tail either as part of the casting or stamped with the letter Z or No;2, the other side of this marked fin was painted red to identify these tails from the earlier No;1 tails. The 2" mortar round used no secondary charge to propel it further.
If you are collecting these bombs or the 28g cartridges there are other countries that also used and manufactured them, Canada, Australia, Israel and a few other countries that i can’t think of at the moment.
The HERC 81MM powder was used in 2" mortar cartridges other than Ballistite, usually manufactured in North America.
Buy the way, what part of the world are you from ‘Missing Something’


#17

I am in Canada :D