2 X US 45 ACP Questions


#1

On page 25 & 26 of HWS 1 , they write about 45 ACP, Reduced Velocity rounds, one with a REM-UMC 18 headstamp and it having “6 stab crimps”, I have a round so headstamped with a knurled case cannelure and it has 3 small dot crimps, about midway between cannelure and case neck, and a copper primer with Black seal, tinned rn. service bullet, is this such a round or a standard ball round ? also on page 26 they mention 1926 Special Waterproof Tests with rounds having Red Shellac at primer pocket and case mouth, my round in question is headstamped PETERS 27 it has a Red primer, no Red that can be seen at case mouth, the case also has a coat of dark Greenish lacquer , could this also be part of these tests ? were they carried over into 1927 ? Thanks Randy


#2

Randy - to be one of the reduced-velocity helmet-test cartridges in question, it would have to have six crimps. Your round, with three crimps, is a standard revolver load meant for the Model 1917 Colt and smith & Wesson Revolvers. There were early complaints of bullets jumping forward, out or partially out of the cartridge cases in the cylinders of these revolvers due to insufficient crimp to hold them in, from recoil inertia. Of course, in the auto pistol, this is not a problem, as the front inner wall of the magazine keeps the bullets from moving forward. These rounds were usually boxed 24 to a box, on half-moon clips, and were made by Peters, Remington and United States Cartridge Corporation during our involvement in WWI, primarily 1918.

Your PETERS 27 is generally considered to be a standard ball round. Since no ammunition procurement is generally known for the 1927 National Matches, I have always had a notion that the PETERS 27 cartridge is actually a National Match round, like the WESTERN 30 headstamp is known to be. However, I have never seen a box for these rounds and can’t document it in any other way either. It is highly unlikely that your round originally had a lacquered case. I have seen dozens of these cartridges, and have never encountered one lacquered, other than by a collector for his collection, something out of vogue now, but commonly done by collectors 40 years ago. I suspect the color is due to contamination of original clear lacquer applied by a collector to “protect” the cartridge. Regrdless, it is not one of the test cartridges from Frankford Arsenal 1926. It is a year too late, and they do not have the red case mouth seal described for rounds from that test.

I know it seems like I am really hitting your described rounds hard in your last couple of postings, but they are simply the facts as I know them (or don’t know them).

Reference: HWS Volume I (Revised) page 25, 26
Reference: REM-UMC 18 Helmet Test Cartridge, John Moss Collection
Reference: Various Revolver-specific US Military 24-round boxs John Moss collection.

Edited solely to correct two typos. No change in content.


#3

Thats fine John, I am very happy to get your imput, we all get these rounds from time to time that appear a little strange to the norm ,and unless we ask the question we will never know what they could be, I have been putting these rounds away for a lot of years now in a ??? box that I could not find answers to in my cartridge books , posting them on the IAA from time to time has solved a lot of questions for me , thanks regards Randy