2015 international ECRA show Germany - 50 years of ECRA


#1

I thought I will post this reminder on the upcoming international ECRA show in Germany on 24-26 September.

It shall be a more unusual show with side program(s) and all sort of celebrations. Means plenty of people (= +ammo) and certainly well spent time. This will be maybe one of the most significant shows in ECRA history.

In short; if any of you ever thought about visiting an ECRA show (in Germany/Europe) at least once in his lifetime this would be the right time to do.


#2

Where does it take place, which city?


#3

Normally it wil take place in Hessisch Oldendorf.
But when there enough people show up , they may
have to look for a bigger place.

451kr.


#4

Vlad the location is near Hannover:
google.de/maps/place/Hessis … c9b17db763

At least the dinner and evening event will be elsewhere.
It would be amazing if they had to book a bigger location for the ammo part then (if so many people will attend).


#5

Very tempting, I haven’t been in Europe since 1978, I am almost afraid to see the changes.


#6

I am going to aim to get there this year has anyone got any photos of previous ones and how do I go about bringing ammunition back to the UK. I will be driving not flying

thanks
Rich


#7

On the German Autobahn they drive over 125 Miles per hour now. -:)


#8

[quote=“RichT”]I am going to aim to get there this year has anyone got any photos of previous ones and how do I go about bringing ammunition back to the UK. I will be driving not flying

thanks
Rich[/quote]

If you go by boat, and drive true the Netherlands it is no Problem.
If you make your application for visiting the international show, The German team take care of the German licence. For information about the Dutch (Consent) in and export, you can write me a PM

Rgds
Dutch


#9

If I were to come to Germany and buy old FIRED ammunition, how difficult is it to ship it to the US?


#10

Carrying live ammo back to the US requires a Form 6 from the ATF. The best/only way to carry it back is in your checked baggage. Let you airline know you will be carrying 5Kg of ammo (the legal limit). For more details check with the ATF. Some info is available on the IAA website.

Inert items should not be a problem in your checked baggage. You cannot carry them in your handcarry.

Cheers,
Lew


#11

On the German Autobahn they drive over 125 Miles per hour now. -:)[/quote]

You have an old car then!


#12

On the German Autobahn they drive over 125 Miles per hour now. -:)[/quote]

You have an old car then![/quote]

125 MPH isn’t that bad for a Dutch


#13

Dutch, ha! You beat me to it!
That would have been my next question.
You fill it up with ammo and come to the show then.!


#14

Rich T come with me I will take you…paul.


#15

You don’t need a licence for old FIRED cases.

It is not possible to ship life ammo to the USA, but it is allowed to take 5kg of life ammo with you in your checked in luggage. (Not loose, but packed in original ammo boxes or ammo containers.)

We do the same if we are visiting the Saint Louis show.

Dutch


#16

Thanks for all replies. What I meant by shipping FIRED (inert) ammo, was “Fedex,UPS” type shipping. I have a deep distrust of airline employees interpreting their own regulations. Also, how long does it take to drive from UK to Hanover?


#17

The Ferry from Harwich to Hoek van Holland takes 6.5 hours.
From there to Hessish Oldendorf is about 250 Miles, 4-5 hour drive.

Rgds


#18

Vlad, I go over 2 or 3 times a year for the past 20 years with live ammo both ways. Have never had a serious problem. Once the German airport police at 0600hrs on a Sunday morning demanded that I have a US permit to own the ammo that I was taking home, and did not think my US import permit was enough. They couldn’t comprehend that there were no ammunition ownership permits in the US. I go on the internet and get a 24 hour police phone number for the European locations where I fly in and out. I also keep the phone numbers of the show organizers since they have close relations with the police to organize the meeting. Eventually I told the police to call a senior inspector or I would call one, and they decided that it wasn’t worth the trouble and I got on the plane.

My other issue was 10 years ago in Holland when I arrived about a week earlier than everyone else on my way to the Czech meeting before the ECRA meeting. The Dutch permit is a special one for the ECRA and the Dutch Customs officer didn’t recognize it. Took about 2 hours for him to contact the right person who told him that they had not send down the instructions and notice on the ECRA permit because they didn’t expect anyone to use one for about 4 more days.

For over a hundred trips, that is pretty good.

Some simple rules.

Pack your ammo in plastic ammo boxes or other partitioned boxes designed for ammo so it is not loose. This applies to both inert/fired items and live ammo since some inspectors cannot tell the difference between live ammo and dummies (particularly true when leaving the US). And, tape a label on each box of inert/fired rounds clearly stating that it the items are inert and do not contain powder and that the primer is inert. Live ammo should also be labelled as such. I always put a copy of all my permits in the bag with the ammo, inert or live.

Get a letter or something written from your local Sheriff or Chief of Police stating that you do not require a permit to own ammunition. I have gotten a concealed carry permit which works well. About every second or third visit I am asked for my authorization to carry ammunition. On my ATF Form 6, in block 10, I clearly state that the ammo I am importing is for my personal use and explain that I am a collector and ammunition researcher and write articles and books. That satisfies the ATF, TSA and other European authorities.

Never violate the weight restrictions of 5Kg per person.

Always declare your live ammo when you go through customs. In the US, Customs has told me that with an approved form 6 for import (not a form 6 (nia) for non citizens) there is no requirement to declare the ammo, but I tell them anyway.

Keep some phone numbers as I mentioned above just in case something gets messed up. I have never had to actually use mine.

Check the rules in the countries you pass through. Fired cartridge cases are probably OK, Dummy rounds are generally OK, but if they have tracer or AP or other fancy bullets they could be a problem in some countries.

All the European countries require permits for live ammo, even if you are just passing through. If you fly to the UK and take the ferry to Holland and then drive to the meeting in Germany, you will require permit from all three countries. In most cases the consulate in the US can issue a transportation permit, but I have avoided that by flying form the US directly to the country with the meeting.

I have never tried to mail or UPS/DHL ammo back to the US, primarily because of US rules and US Customs which seems to have different rules at different locations. Ammo in most places in Europe is defined as having a case, primer, powder and bullet or equivalents to be ammo. Otherwise it is not generally regulated with some exceptions. The ATF does not make the same distinction. The last time I checked their material could be interpreted that ammo includes the separate components, fired or not. I have been told unofficially that this is intentional and that convicted felons have been arrested for having a fired cartridge case. Flying with ammo is so easy that I don’t try to ship.

Hope you get over to Germany for the meeting.

Cheers,
Lew


#19

Vlad, I think flying in right to Hannover is the easiest way in terms of keeping the lowest number of border crossings and declarations. Also it is the geographically closest airport.

Good we have Lew and some other people around who can share their huge experience on this!

Over the years we had hundreds if not thousands of visitors to our shows and it always worked without trouble other than some ignorant govt. employees which then got an update on their duties when faced with related issues.


#20

Looking forward to meet you at last.