20mm and 25mm non lethal

I came across these images without much accompanying info.

There is 20mm “impact” and 25mm “fixed airburst” (nothing else but powder delay).
As far as I can determine these are likely US projects.

Is anybody able to say more and ID cases and weapons?

Image source: internet

slide17-n slide19-n

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Am I the only one interested?
Or is this again an “invisible” thread?

Invisible to be sure as I did not see it until now.

Pepper is the resident expert, but I don’t recall these rounds in his SLICS OICS/OCSW display from a few years back.

I can’t comment specifically comment on the projectiles shown, but here is a fired less lethal 25mm projectile. A little tape is being used to keep the petals together. in the second image.



Paul, then my suspicion about invisibility was right. I guess there is more such threads I never got recations to!

Thanks a lot for these images, great to see this variant!

The thread was at least not invisible to me. I remember seeing the illustrations very well, particularly my surprise of using tungsten in an “NL” round. But I could not contribute any useful information.

Jochem, as lead is no option these days and weight and size have to be retained there are few alternatives I assume.

I think all those green ammo designers will have to re-consider their deliberate use of tungsten in ammo (als a lead replacement) as we may run short soon and plastering the countryside with this valuable material may not be very wise!

Alex - the Neopup/Denel/Inkunzi PAW-20 was marketed as compatible with less-than-lethal/less-lethal munitions.
Possibly one of potential platforms for use?


Ole, here cases are different and it is a US issue it seems.
So far I think it is not really related.

Alex, yes, these are US projects. A non-lethal round was a side development of the OICW program in 20 mm (20x28B) and 25 mm (25x59B).

Here is a related patent: US6722283B1.pdf (272.6 KB)



What’s the length of the 20 mm case? I was almost certain it looked like 20x42.


Ole, that’s an early US 20x28B case (wide belt variant).