20MM Dummy Ammunition ** Updated 16-10


#1

Hello and thank you for having me on the forum.

I’d like to ask for some help please. I’ve recently acquired a large lot of 20MM dummy ammunition and to date I’ve had little luck getting much more than basic info on any of it. To date the only thing I know is that the Zombie green XM1032 is made by General Dynamics for use in the Army’s Comanche helicopters. The rest remain a mystery that I hope you can help shed some more light on.

thanks in advance for your help.


#2

ACN = Amron Corporation. MIL-STD-1461E, Ammunition Manufacturers and Their Symbols, 1990. Model XM1032???

POH = R. L. Pohlman Armament Corporation. Model XM254 for use with 20mm guns M39, M61, M139, M168, M195, XM197 per TM 43-0001-27, Army Ammunition Data Sheets, Small Caliber Ammunition, 1981.

Welcome to the IAA Forum!

Hopefully others can provide more information.


#3

bdgreen,

XM1031 : 20x102 Lightweight Multi-Purpose Cartridge
XM1032 : 20x102 Lightweight Target Practice Cartridge

Both were indeed developed (by GDOT at the company’s Marion, Ill., facility ) for the Comanche Helicopter for tests in 2002. No idea if they ever made it through the test phase


#4

Thanks for the help so far everyone.

Just out of curiosity does anyone have a wild guess as to what they’re worth ? Should I pop a Schlitz in celebration of my unique find, or is this more of a Molsons moment?

Is it possible that I’ve found something so unique that I can stop using duct tape to close all the gashes I’ve gotten and upgrade to genuine Band-Aid’s ?

In any event I hope you’re all enjoying my first post on this forum. If anyone is interested I’ve got quite a bit more that I could post up for your viewing please.

thanks again, David


#5

More like a pop-open-a-generic-supermarket-bottled-water moment.
Not really worth much on a good day, especially in that quantity. I’ve had similar rounds that I’ve carted around for years that I can’t give away.


#6

In Europe the aluminum cased ones may go better as they are not around here.


#7

These XM1032 rounds are particularly interesting because they are percussion primed, instead of the standard electric primed M50 and PGU rounds originally intended for the XM301 gun, that was later adapted to both ignition systems.

The last picture at left shows a Canadian C145 dummy.


#8

Thank you all again for the help. Stay tuned, I’ll be uploading another batch of pictures in the next 15 min. or so with some of the other finds from this lot.


#9

Here are some more pictures for your viewing pleasure. As always thank you for any information you can offer.

These first two were rather unique, the cardboard tubes making them stand out from the rest of the batch.

Once removed they revealed,

The casings are some what weather beaten. The projectiles however are near mint with very nice roll engraving.

A slightly clearer shot of the previous M103AL’s

These were the only four of their type found in this lot,


#10

a few more pics I hope you’ll enjoy

A bit weather beaten but the roll engraving is still quite clear:

20MM DUMMY M51A3 TRP91C001-001

A somewhat clearer picture of the C145’s


#11

A few more pictures that I hope you’ll enjoy. As always any info you can provide is very welcome.


#12

Indeed - I can’t say that I’ve ever seen one.


#13

[quote=“Fede”]These XM1032 rounds are particularly interesting because they are percussion primed, instead of the standard electric primed M50 and PGU rounds originally intended for the XM301 gun, that was later adapted to both ignition systems.
[/quote]

Fascinating - I didn’t know about the dual ignition system.


#14

Indeed - I can’t say that I’ve ever seen one.[/quote]

Well, i finally managed to get one of these XM1032 rounds to Europe (thanks Gordon !)

For those interested in the 20x102 series, i added some close-up pictures of this particular XM1032 round, and some other (experimental)aluminum cased 20x102’s in my collection.


#15

Thanks for the great images Orpheus.

Is the blind hole in the primer dummy by factory or was it done by somebody later on to show it is no life primer?


#16

I guess it is original, as the hole is perfectly centered, and looks smooth on the inside (not done by a ‘regular’ drillbit).
But i am not sure as i do not have any documentation nor drawings on the XM1031 / XM1032 /inert XM1032…

Only thing i found online was this:

[quote]The XM1031 and XM1032 cartridges shall be designed to comply with the Interface Control Drawing (ICD) for the XM301 three-barrel gattling gun system manufactured by General Dynamics Armament Systems (GDAS), Burlington, Vermont.

The Department of the Army, TACOM-ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, N.J., has awarded a $2.4 million contract for the development and production of 6,000 rounds of 20mm XM1031 Lightweight Multi-Purpose Cartridges; 21,000 rounds of 20mm XM1032 Lightweight Target Practice (TP) Cartridges; and 1,000 rounds of 20mm Inert Lightweight Cartridges. The XM1031 (LTP-P) and XM1032 (LMP-P) Cartridge are used by the U.S. Army on the Comanche Helicopter.

Notice Date: September 6, 2000
Contracting Office: US Army ARDEC, AMSTA-AR-PC, Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey 07806-5000
[/quote]

I sure hope someone has documentation/drawings on these rounds…

Geert.


#17

Thanks for your input!
Good to see the line of developmental requirements between the Comanche and the later AH-64 Apache which as you certainly know is using aluminum cases in the M230 chain gun.

Certainly there is data and info on all these but as always it has to be accessible to the public first.

I wonder why the aluminum case in 20x102 never became standard. One can assume that there were technical restrictions not to do so.