20x110HS Unknown bullet


#1

Unknown bullet
Hello,
I am a cartridge collector form Portugal and I used to be in this forum a few years ago, but I have been apart from cartridge collecting in the past 5 years (I think my user id used to be Vítor Teixeira, and I recognize some old post in the historical archive of older posts).
After these years I am back to collecting. I found this 20x110 Hispano-Suiza apparently made in 1942 in UK by Royal Ordnance Factory.
Bullet is completely painted black and has no marks of any king (not residues of paint inscriptions, nor press stamps in the metal).
I’ve been looking for information on this kind of bullet, but I am not sure of it type. In some sources it is mentioned as inert, in outers as APT.
Thanks for any help
Vitor Teixeira


#2

On my screen the bullet has a repainted look to it?


#3

Yes. That is precisely what makes confusion to me…
Nevertheless I have been told this could be the:
20mm x 110 HS 404 Practice Mark Iz (UK)
The fact is that I could not find much reliable information on those practice rounds.
This looks like it, but I wonder if those “20mm x 110 HS 404 Practice Mark Iz (UK)” have some distinctive markings or codes, other than the bullet painted black. The specimen I have has nothing more than the headstamp.


#4

I have the same cartridge.
I cannot say if it is repainted or no.
Same headstamp but with RG at 6 o’clock, 20mm at 2 o’clock and 1942 at 10 o’clock.


#5

[quote=“Maverick1112003”]I have the same cartridge.
I cannot say if it is repainted or no.
Same headstamp but with RG at 6 o’clock, 20mm at 2 o’clock and 1942 at 10 o’clock.[/quote]

What about marks in the bullet? Does yours have any?
I have seen some pictures in the net of these practice rounds and they all look similar to this. But those pictures are not high resolution, so I can’t see if there are any identification painted or stamped in the bullet.
I also noticed that the painting job looks a bit “strange” in those pictures.
By the way, in the headstamp of yours cartridge is there a dot after the year “1942.” as in this one?
Thanks


#6

From Handbook for 20 MM SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION LAND SERVICE, 1943, British War Office.

Minor notes:

RG in headstamp = Royal Ordnance Factory Radway Green, Radway Green, UK

What is being described as a “bullet” in the above posts is technically called a “projectile” when it comes to 20mm cannon ammunition.

Brian


#7

Many thanks Brian !!!

If I am making the correct interpretation of the handbook, this should be the ordinary ball projectile, but the inscriptions are missing.


#8

[quote=“VitorTeixeira”]What about marks in the bullet? Does yours have any?
I have seen some pictures in the net of these practice rounds and they all look similar to this. But those pictures are not high resolution, so I can’t see if there are any identification painted or stamped in the bullet.
I also noticed that the painting job looks a bit “strange” in those pictures.
By the way, in the headstamp of yours cartridge is there a dot after the year “1942.” as in this one?
Thanks[/quote]
Nothing on the bullet, perfectly smooth and yes, there is a dot after 1942.


#9

Many thanks Maverick.
Now I am perfectly sure this is not a fake or repainted job.


#10

FWIW, these cartridges may have undergone a renovation process at some point which may have included repainting the projectile and thus covering the original lot/date markings. No proof of this, just something to consider.

As an example for U.S. ammunition (WWII and shortly after) there is U.S. Army manual TM 9-1905 Ammunition Renovation, 1948. This manual covers the renovation of recovered ammunition, ammunition coming from opened or damaged shipping containers and deemed serviceable after inspection. Among other things the manual covers the repainting of serviceable projectiles, if necessary do to paint loss/discoloration etc., down to and including the bullet tips of .50 (12.7mm) BMG cartridges.

From British 20mm Hispano Ammunition by Labbett & Mead, 1986:

Cartridge SA Ball 20mm Hispano, Gun Mark 1.z. This cartridge was used in both “service” loaded belts of ammunition (mixed with HE/I and SAP/I) and loaded in belts of training ammunition (without HE/I and SAP/T) intended for firing at static targets. Thus this cartridge at times was referred to as a practice cartridge.

Projectile weight = 125.5 grams, projectile length = 82mm

Sectional diagram of projectile

Brian