20X138B ID help please

Hi, I´ve been looking for a 20X138B AP example to add to my collection and one has come up that I´m not sure about. Can anyone help confirm it´s authenticity?

The case is brass, German, dated 1939, with decent stamping, but the projectile seems a bit odd. It appears to be a steel, pointed AP round, with a copper driving band, but it is painted white, and has the stamping 4 4 111. The seller says that it is not original to the case, and as I haven´t got the round I don´t know if it is solid or has a cavity.

Has anyone got any ideas as to it´s origin?
Many thanks

Tim, you would need to show us some photos.

As for your projectile I have a thought already but need confirmation.


Hi, a photo of the projectile from the sellers advert.

This is too small to say anything.

It’s a late English 20x110 Hispano projectile, many of these have recently ‘flooded’ the market over here often crimped in un primed cases with headstamps ‘LOT (various lot Nos) (various 70’s & 80’s dates) 20MM’, these cases are thought to have been a Kynoch contract to BMAR Co for a overseas contract.


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I agree with TonyL and I posted an answer on 26 Dec 2018.
I show 3 BMARCCo cartridges and headstamps. The APT and the white painted APT are marked 111 44 for export orders. Interesting that surplus projectiles are common or stuffed into odd cases.


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Many thanks. A British Hispano projectile mated to a WW2 German 20x138B case. I won’t be buying that then!

This is a correct AP-T projectile (not a very nice example but…) for the 20x138B, note that it has a ‘iron’ driveband


Hi Ron,
the information given to me at the time was that rather a lot of projectiles came from BMARCo’s scrap bin via an employee.
I managed to get these different unfinished Hispano projectiles from that source and also some ‘unusual’ 20x110 Oerlikons with Hispano drive bands…guess we’ll never know if these are manufacturing ‘cock ups’ or something that BMARCo was ‘trying out’