20x82 and 13x64B MG 151/20 and MG131 Round designations


#1

What are the correct designations for the following MG151/20 20x82 rounds and MG 131 13x64B round?

20x82 API, Lacquered steel case, Percussion primer

20x82 M-Geshcoss, Brass plated steel case, Electric primer. The fuse on the round is marked ZZ1505 eeo 456 43 [Waffenamt]. Does that make this an M-Geschoss M-Zerl or O-Zerl (Does the fuse have an SD mechanism)?

13x64B API, Lacquered steel case, Electric Primer

Any info would be helpful.


#2

Falcon, your 20mm “Minengeschoss” should have a green band below the fuze, that would indicate an SD feature. Knowing it has a ZZ1505 makes it obvious even if the color is gone. The ZZ1505 has a centrifugal based SD mechanism.


#3

Your 20 x 82 API is either a 2cm Pzbrgr.(phosphor) o.Zerl or a 2cm Pzbrgr. (Elektron) o.Zerl depending on the filling.

The M-Geschosss is a s EOD says an SD as it has the ZZ1505.

The 13mm is a 13mm Pzbrgr.(Phosphor) o.Zerl.

Regards
TonyE


#4

Falcon has your 13x64B a blue band on the ogive of the shell or maybe a red band above the driving band?

It is a bit difficult to tell the AP-T apart from the API when the color is gone. Means you have to look very close to see if it is a special closing disc or a tracer in the projectile’s base.

Do you have images for us?


#5

Thanks for the info EOD and Tony.

What does “Pzbrgr” stand for?

EOD, all the paint is gone from My M-Geschoss. The man I bought it off said it was dug up from a crashed Me109 which was 7 metres underground. However, the round itself is in good condition as apparently the oil from the engine leaked onto the rounds, leaving them protected from rust. The heat of the oil immediately after the crash obviously discoloured the paint as it looks to have been burnt off. There are still very faint traces of the black stencilling. Obviously this round is now inert.

Mg 13mm round has traces of blue paint around the bullet ogive, this is how I knew it was the API. The Incendiary composition has been drilled out. How was the composition detonated? Purely by the shock of impact?


#6

Falcon, it seems like your 20mm shell has been burned out to remove the charge (the RDX inside is too sensitive to be removed mechanically). The engine oil would have not effected anything with it’s temperature by the time it reached the ammunition I think.

The 13x64B API contained white phosphorous (WP) in a small capspule. It was held in place by a brittle steel disc which should break by the impact shock. The WP reacts with air and starts burning at about a temperature of 20


#7

I suppose that could have been done. What made me think about the oil is that the part of the projectile below the driving band that was inside the case was unaffected. I doubt anyone would would heat up the projectile while it was still in the case.

Do you know where I could get a replacement 1944 or 45 dated base plug for the 20x82 API? Someone has turned it the way you would turn a right hand thread to get it out, which has stripped the threads. I saw them for sale at the place I got the rounds, but didn’t realise until I got home. A gaine for the ZZ1505 would also be handy.


#8

[quote=“Falcon”]I suppose that could have been done. What made me think about the oil is that the part of the projectile below the driving band that was inside the case was unaffected. I doubt anyone would would heat up the projectile while it was still in the case.

Do you know where I could get a replacement 1944 or 45 dated base plug for the 20x82 API? Someone has turned it the way you would turn a right hand thread to get it out, which has stripped the threads. I saw them for sale at the place I got the rounds, but didn’t realise until I got home. A gaine for the ZZ1505 would also be handy.[/quote]

The base plugs of the 20mm API (Air Force) are usually glued in and even turning the right direction will strip the threads.

For the ZZ1505 you need a detonator “VC 70”. They usually have a pressed in charge and pressed in delay piece containing a tiny primer. These are almost impossoble to deactivate and noone does so. With a bit luck you may find one which has never been loaded.


#9

Thanks, the same person selling the base plugs had some of these gaines that had never been loaded. I have one of these never loaded gaines on the AZ49 fuse on my 20x138B FlaK round, so I know I can definitely find them. Were aluminium ones used on steel fuses as well?


#10

Yes, the “VC 70” was of aluminum but it was longer than the one you should have on the AZ 49 which was a regular “Duplex”.


#11

Thanks, the man selling the gaines had some of the longer ones as well, so I’ll have to wait until I go back to the same collector’s fair next year.


#12

Was it a huge guy with a Land Rover?


#13

I can’t remember what he looked like. The rounds came from a different seller to the one who had the gaines.