22 Short & long Centerfire


During the forum outage I picked up 2 cartridges that are dimentionaly the same as the “regular” 22 short and long rimfires, but these 2 both have CF primers.
Can anyone tell me more about them? era, weapon used in (pistol/rifle) possible makers, etc


Brandt provides very little on these cartridges. He indicates that neither had wide distribution, and that the .22 long centerfire was listed in the 1926 Fiocchi catalog as a pistol and rifle cartridge.


The .22 long centerfire seems to be the .220 Rook, aka; .220 long centerfire.
Manufactured by Eley ca. 1878 or before.
case length, .760", over all length, .948-.961", cartridge weight, 53-54 grains.
by; Bill Fleming


Municion.org has something called “.22 Short CF / .22 Short Revolver Center Fire / SAA 0185 / XCR 06 010 CBC 010”. Maybe that helps?


In the 1926 Fiocchi catalog they are listed as “CF revolver cartridges with inside primer” .Only one load is listed , with lead round nose bullet


Tailgunner–What are the headstamps? Can you post a picture of bothe the headstamp and profile?


IIRC there is no headstamp, and I won’t be able to provide photos or dimentions until the weekend.
They are primed with standard type primers (not inside primied).


With a standard primer, not internal centerfire, it probably is, depending on case length, either a .22 Short, C.F. (C.L-.375-.404) or a .230 Revolver C.F. (C.L.-.437-.475) or a .22 Long, C.F. (C.L.-.527-.535)


22 short, 22 Long Rifle, 22 Extra Long and 22 Magnum for comparison.

Case length / OAL / Primer diameter
Short: .368 / .617 / .154(ish)
Long: .740 / .943 / .178(ish)

So it appears that what I have is a 22 Short CF and a 220 Rook than?


Believe your pictured, long CF, is a .230 CF not a .22.

Edited once to reflect that this above comment is a mistake / wrong


The bullet (best I can measure it) is .223 diameter, and the case mouth is .238

Not arguing, I’d like to make sure I catalog it correctly


The bullet (best I can measure it) is .223 diameter, and the case mouth is .238

Not arguing, I’d like to make sure I catalog it correctly[/quote]
Hi Tailgunner
my mistake I meant to to call it a .22-4-30. And you are correct it is a .22.
see Buttwieler 9-1-682 and Bill Flemming page 9
I’m going to edit my post to reflect my mistake.
Sorry for the confusion


I have the long one listed as a .22-4-30 Rook and the short one as a .22-3-30 Rook, neither of
mine have a headstamp


Precisely the same dimension’s as a .22 Long Rifle Rimfire. I never have figured it our or the headstamp for that matter.



Enlarged portion of John’s picture from above showing the " N " in a shield headstamp. RWS manufacture.




Yes, thats it. N for Nürnberg. Excelent!

Now for more info on the cartridge.


Bootleg .22 long, center fire ammo?

I have both cartridges listed as 22 Rook short and 22 Rook long
first introduced and produced by ELEY in 1875 to 1878 a
220 CF short 22-3-30
220 CF long 22-4-30


These ‘Marke N’ rounds were specifically made for an RWS subcaliber conversion kit for auto pistols. The centerfire primer meant no adaptor or modification was needed for the firing pin.

I have a barrel for the P08 pistol, as well as the brochure and after a long search, one of these rounds.


So “N” for Nurnberg or something else?



judging from the brochure its just ‘N’ :)

But it makes sense to suggest its a leftover from Uettendorffer in Nuernberg.