.222 R-P headstamp change


#1

This is for an article I am writing, in order to roughly gauge the age of a shell found at a crime scene.

I believe that the headstamp on the .222 R-P cartridge changed when Remington Arms moved operations from Connecticut to Arkansas in 1971.

I need photographs or other graphics of these headstamps – i.e. prior to and after 1971 – documenting this change.

Can anyone help directly, or suggest how I might achieve this?

Thank you very kindly.

Allan Eaglesham


#2

Remington used R . P instead of R - P for production at the Lonoke, Arkansas plant.


#3

According to my notes:

1970, centerfire ammunition production was moved to Lonoke, Arkansas.

December 1989, the Bridgeport plant was closed down and all ammunition was produced at Lonoke.

R - P Remington Peters, Bridgeport, CT c.1960-1989

R . P Remington Peters, Lonoke, AR c.1970 - to date

Company history here: http://www.remington.com/library/history/company_history.asp


#4

Hi Ron and Chris:

Many thanks indeed – this is encouraging.

However, your posts raise another question in this particular case. Please see the photograph showing the shell in question. Is that a long dot or a short dash between the “R” and the “P”?

Also, please see sketch and description which are lifted from the 1963 edition of White and Munhall’s Cartridge Headstamp Guide. In that sketch the dash is significantly longer than what is seen in the photograph.

Would you say that the shell in question was manufactured in Connecticut or Arkansas?

Thank you.

Allan


#5

THE PHOTO DOESN’T SHOW. You need to put it up on PHOTOBUCKET or similar host site and transfer it to the FORUM. See “posting pictures” on the FORUM.


#6

Sorry, I am having difficulty uploading the graphic.

It is available for viewing here:

manuscriptservice.com/InstantWebPage/

Thank you.

Allan


#7

Where will I find the “posting pictures” instructions?

Thank you.

Allan


#8

Allan

I would call it a “dot”, but it could be a short dash. However, I did not start to see these very short dash headstamps until in the 1980’s when all the production had been transfered to Lonoke, Arkansas.


#9

Allan

Go to the Forum Tech Issues, FAQs and Practice Area for instruction on posting images on the forum. This forum can be accessed by going to the bottom of the page for the main forum and clicking on the choices on the right side of the page. Or click on the “International Ammunition Association {cartridgecollectors.org} Forum Index” words at the bottom of the page and then select the second forum listed there.


#10

[quote=“Ron Merchant”]Allan

I would call it a “dot”, but it could be a short dash. However, I did not start to see these very short dash headstamps until in the 1980’s when all the production had been transfered to Lonoke, Arkansas.[/quote]

Ron:

Again, this is helpful.

Can you point me to a source of photographs that show what R-P headstamps looked like in the 1960s in comparison with those manufactured in the 1970s? I have approached Remington Arms, but it was “no go” because I’m not in law-enforcement.

Thanks so much.

Allan


#11

Allan

No, I know of no site that would provide the informaton you want. However, except for minor variation in length, most of the “R - P” headstamps are quite like the W&M drawing. There is no consistency over the years 1960-1970’s for the length of the dash. It varies from one caliber to another. That being said, the early 1960’s rounds do seem to me to be somewhat longer than most of the later ones. But, I still think, based on when I started to notice the very short “dash”, that it is intended to be a “dot” not a “dash”.

Going back to your original premise of being able to date a cartidge by the style of the headstamp, the answer is “Yes”, you can, but usually in only broad groups of years. Except for most military headstamps which are usually year dated, most commercial headstamps are used for a number of years. For instance, the predcessor the the “R-P” was “REM-UMC”. That headstamp was used from about 1912 to 1960 with VERY little variation. Other factors such as primer type or bullet material or bullet style will more accurately date a cartridge than the headstamp alone. Of course using the bullet implies you have a "live"round, not just an empty case.


#12

Re R-P R.P I went through a can of stuff I no longer collect & found a
7 mm Rem Mag which has .R P. What does that signify?


#13

I have a hazy memory of having read someplace that those cases with .R P. were made by either Winchester or I.V.I.
for Remington. I think it was Winchester.


#14

[quote=“Ron Merchant”]Allan

No, I know of no site that would provide the informaton you want. However, except for minor variation in length, most of the “R - P” headstamps are quite like the W&M drawing. There is no consistency over the years 1960-1970’s for the length of the dash. It varies from one caliber to another. That being said, the early 1960’s rounds do seem to me to be somewhat longer than most of the later ones. But, I still think, based on when I started to notice the very short “dash”, that it is intended to be a “dot” not a “dash”.

Going back to your original premise of being able to date a cartidge by the style of the headstamp, the answer is “Yes”, you can, but usually in only broad groups of years. Except for most military headstamps which are usually year dated, most commercial headstamps are used for a number of years. For instance, the predcessor the the “R-P” was “REM-UMC”. That headstamp was used from about 1912 to 1960 with VERY little variation. Other factors such as primer type or bullet material or bullet style will more accurately date a cartridge than the headstamp alone. Of course using the bullet implies you have a "live"round, not just an empty case.[/quote]

Ron:

Thank you – this is helpful.

Allan


#15

Thanks Ron.
Don’t feel bad,ALL my memories are hazy.
Dick.


#16

Here’s the rest of the story from the gentleman who posted the original question regarding the length of the dash in the R-P headstamp; its quite interesting, due in large part to help from some of those on the cartridge forum.

manuscriptservice.com/Headstamp


#17

Great article. I am glad the forum could be of help. VERY glad to see the Remington headstamp drawing. For many years the existance of the “short” dash has been debated as to weither it was poor quality control on the bunter or a damaged “long” dash bunter or a worn “dot” bunter. This confirms that the “short” dash was intential.


#18

back to the top


#19

[color=red]NOTICE++++++NOTICE++++++NOTICE[/color]

This thread was restored ONLY for the information it contains concerning the “Long Dash” & “Short Dash” R-P headstamps. ANY new comments concerning the JFK conspiracy will be deleated!!!