.222 Rem Mag Flechette


#1


5.56 flechette headstamp RP/222/REM MAG
This is the only one that I have not cut, all others that have or will post were cut by me. Bought this over internet for $62- for both. Not sure, believe that this is an experimental by Aircraft Armaments Inc (AAI).
Ray, tring to save fingers, been using my toes! Thanks for helping me with this round on the other board.


#2

Ohhhhh. I dont have one of those… dont spose you have any spares? :)


#3

No, I don’t have any extras of this round. At this point just hoping its real! Never seen this type of sabot before. Usually its a green plastic. If I find any more will keep you in mind craigt. They float around from time to time but to expensive if not real.


#4

Allowing for the fact I am going from a photo…I would say that your round is 99.99% legit…but let’s not get too crazy…they are not that rare as there are a “million” subtle variations …especially when you get to the internal variations of the sabot, flechette and components.

Like wise…they are not a “rare find” at the quality cartridge shows. I think they can be found in the $25 range for the commons…and on up for the odd shaped/colored sabots.
Flechette rounds can be an entire collecting specialty in itself…best wishes keeping them all straight


Here are some exquisitely rare examples (don’t ask…I have few details…as most were on loan for my 2004 SLICS Flechette display)

PS…”flechettes”


#5

Pepper,

Thank you for sharing the pictures of your truly amazing displays. My envy is only exceeded by my awe!

Not to be critical, but only for clarity in regard to the topic of this thread, I assume the tag in the top photo should read “Note: .222 REM MAG CASES…”.

And while you where very clear on the “Don’t ask” part of the description of the middle photo, I’ll ask the general Forum community because “I gotsta know…”: Does anyone know what is the case used for that really long necked variety in the lower left of the picture? I looks like it might be larger than a Cal. 30 type case.

Thanks,
Dave


#6

Dave

The tag covered most of the bases. Those flechette experimentals were made using both the 222RM and the 223R case. I believe some were also made on the 222R case. And other cases as well. Who knows what all was used.

Ray


#7

Ray,

No expert here for sure, but I am familiar with .222 Rem., .222 Spl., .222 Rem. Mag. and .223 Rem, but not .223 Rem. Mag. though that designation may have been used as well for all I know. Please rest assured that I’m in no way trying to challenge anyone’s title of “Nit Picker in Chief”…(smiley thing here)!

Dave


#8

Dave

There is no such thing as 223 REM MAG, but that designation does cover a lot of ground. I should have used the smiley face thing 'cause my comment was meant to be smiley.

Don’t forget the 224 Winchester, 224 Springfield, 222 High Velocity, 22 Gustafson, and 221 IMP. All made on the basic 222R case head.

Ron M & Chris B

Why can’t we have smiley faces like all the other Forums do? They’d be used more than the color fonts, IMHO. ;)

ray


#9

Ray–You will need to take up the subject of “Smiley’s” with ChrisB. It is a feature that can be turned on or off on the board. I have no idea why ChrisB decided to turn it off when he set up the new forum. Send him an email.


#10

:) …

Don’t think for a second that all the headstamps had anything to do with anything other than to drive collectors crazy.

My notes say the mag cases were used early on. (tracer trails ?) An esteemed IAA member and retired Picatinny Arsenal employee is the foremost 223 “ACR” flechette expert and knows more about the color and shape of the flechette/sabot retaining ring (I forgot how to spell “borolia” ???) than anyone…but he is not a “Forum guy”

Pepper


#11

Wow. That is some impressive photos there Pepper.
Thank you for sharing those :)


#12

Pepper, Ah errr da wow! Um a a so a wow! Speechless. Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water! Is that 3 foot one on the table for shooting at battle ships, or aircraft carriers? Probably go thru 1000 men and keeps on trucking! Thanks for the reinsurance on my lonely little tiny flechette.


#13

My notes (as dictated to me by the IAA owner)>>>I am still trying to buy it !!!

133/60 mm U.S. Experimental Anti Aircraft Projectile
circa 1948-49
Cartridge Stampings

133 MM. T3
PROOF PROJECTILE
LOT NO. F.A.-E- 271 8
PROJ. NO. 13

WT. W/O SABOT – 14.11
WT. WITH SABOT – 19.40
C.G.W/O SABOT 18.24 INCHES

Following WWII, both U.S. and British Intelligence teams found that the Germans (Rheinmetall) were working on a rapid fire AA gun of 15 cm caliber. It was a dual mount, capable of firing 30 rounds per minute (15 each tube). This weapon was designed to fire a streamlined (Arrow) fin stabilized projectile with a discarding bourrelet to achieve very high velocities and thus reduce timeof flight to improve hit probability.

During the late 1940’s, the British started work on their own AA gun following the German design. This weapon was a smooth bore firing a 60 mm finned arrow projectile and was given a code name of “Red Maid”. The U.S. entered into a joint development program during 1948-49 and started the investigation of at least three calibers: 127/50mm; 127/60mm; and 133/60mm, all having the “Arrow” design. Later the 127/60mm was decided upon and a considerable amount of work was done with this caliber to include rocket and ram-jet assisted versions. Cooperative efforts with the British were also undertaken on the weapon, particularly it’s auto feed; the fire control system, which was radar controlled, and was a family of “Arrow” ammunition.