223 israelian


#1

hello
this type of ammunition some people tell it is an short range ammunition and some people tell this is an anti-terrorist round.
can you tell me more:
the name of this round
data of this round

thanks


#2

It is a short range frangible of french origin. One of the several type’s exist. Don’t know if these ctg have a french headstamp or loaded in Israel. I hear earlier that these rounds where used as anti-riot ctg. Wishes, Jan


#3

They are made and loaded in Israel, with a French-designed bullet. The label says REDUCED ENERGY, PLASTIC BULLET. In 1989-91-ish, platoon officers were issued these, 6 rounds at a time, for anti-riot use. They were given special instructions on how to use them. The rounds were practically useless in that role and withdrawn from issue.


#4

For Samourai and Jon:

This bullets were patented by S.F.M. at the end of the 70ies,and made under diverse configurations as frangible short range projectiles, never as riot load. It was evident that it could have no practical use for an effective anti-riot use…

The generic name of this bullets is “RB”, followed by a figure, like 1, 2, 3 , for instance RB1, RB2, etc.

RB is for RILSAN, a French patented plastic material and BRONZE, as powdered bronze was included in the hot plastic when made. This was for two main purposes:

-to give a correct weight to a material of too light density, for evident ballistic reasons,

-to be visualised by X-Rays, in case of problems asking to trace it.

RB bullets were made under a wide variety of shapes, mostly in a greyish color, reminescent of the bakelte-lead US frangible projectiles tested and used in the 40ies, and in many calibres, like 7,5 mm Mle 1929 (MAS), 7,62 NATO, 9mm Para and .38" Spl.

The rights were bought by several companies, supposedly including IMI, and after the Patent’s’expiration, similar realisations were proposed in diverse countries, with slight variations in composition (powderd copper, metal percentage, etc).

If I say "supposedly "about the IMI realisations, it is because the situation was never absolutely clear, to know if IMI actually bought the rights from the French, or just copied the stuff, as at this moment, SFM was about to close and had other things to look about…!

For Jan, I will tell that I have in collection

-one specimen with an ogival flat tipped brown bullet, hstp IMI 223 REM (3x120


#5

I have a couple of additional questions and comments as to the French and
Israeli connection of these short range cartridges.

I think that the bullet used in the majority of both the French and the Israeli loading are from the same maker or at least produced on the same equipment. My reason for this statement is as follows. I have sectioned over
twenty of these cartridges from both nations. The one thing that is common with both, is a mold number on the base of the bullet. The style of the numeral is the same in most cases. To this date I have found numbers from 1 to 16. If it is a case of being a copy, why are the mold numbers so much alike?

The materials used on the French loadings is as discribed by Dr. Regenstreif,
but I have found several different materials used in the Israeli items. Though the majority are a dark grey material I have everthing from a pinkish color to an almost jet black. I also have an aluminum bullet rd with a TZZ 15 88 headstamp.

My final question is on the French loadings. I have a red tipped round with a
SF 1-87 5,56 H/S and a orange tipped round with a SF 1-86 5,56 H/S. They are not tracer, what are they??


#6

I follow the suggestions of Frank N, as there are lots of variations, on French and Israeli rounds, with diverse profiles and bullet lengths. It seems that the most common shape, cylindrical + cone shaped stepped tip was accepted, not only for these very rounds, bu also for longer aluminum bulleted ones (with alloy cases) and also for other bigger calibres, as reduced rounds, a.s.o…

I have French specimens with translucent uncolored plasttic bt, redddish bullet, black bullet., bullets with a rear hole or not…, slightly different cartridge lengths…

It appears that in the late 80ies, the surviving French cartridge makers were taken in a real frenesy about plastic bullets!!!

The red or orange tipped ones were not tracers, but they carried this color as an ID mark reminding other usual orange plastic short bullets loaded on short range .223" Rem French variations in use (there are more thant 30 trials with different shapes and weights!)
So I belef that it should have been only for quick ID in their plastic packs.

Philippe


#7

Are the projectiles of the British ROTA training ammunition made of the same composite material?


#8

How many variations of this bullet are currently known ?


#9

I send you a picture of the bullet


#10