Not on this Forum so added for reference:
The .224 Montgomery originated in the United States around 2001. The .224 Montgomery has a case length of 0.62 in” (15.75mm) and an the overall length of will depend on the projectile. Velocities will run app. 1,100 to 1,750 feet per second.
The .224 Montgomery, created by Tim Montgomery for whom it is named after, was created as a Wildcat Cartridge using .25 AUTO or .25 ACP Brass necked down to accept a .224 projectile. The inventor stats he has shot over 15,000 round of this caliber and get groups of les the .5" at 100 yards with all holes torching.
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Not on this Forum so added for reference:
I used to shoot silhouette with Tim Montgomery. He developed this before I moved away in 1993, so I think he developed it sometime between 1990 and 1992. Back then he called it a .22 Montgomery.
R. Theron Cammer
Sorry R. Theron but it has always been 224 Montgomery since I first developed and shot it in 1990 and a 1.3" average is more like it at 100 yards but sub 1" groups are common…Tim Montgomery
As a shooter/cartridge collector I would be interesting to know the firearm you developed this for?
John, I shoot this wildcat out of a 12" TC Contender made by Bullberry with a 1 in 12" twist. Would you like me to send you a sample?..Tim
Dan… I have to edit my posts because I am a new member and I can only reply 3 times to the same post. None of my 4 very thick cartridge volumes lists a 22 Pokey but the overall length is correct. When I made a drawing for the first time to send to Clymer and RCBS I think I specified a neck length of about .125 or a bit more and did not specify a shoulder angel. I only seat my bullets to the end of the neck for a consistent bullet pull. Hope that helps…Tim
John, If you need to know more about the loads or ballistics let me know but generally speaking in close to 25 years of shooting this cartridge I have used close to 10 different powders from Bullseye to 296 and more than 15 different bullets from 30 to 60 grains. 30 grain Bergers can be pushed to 2000+ but my most accurate loads use 40 grain bullets to about 1600 to 1700 fps. Primer pockets are delicate and there is no need for max velocity since 100 yard 5 shot groups average between 1.1" and 1.4" with a best of .276"…Tim
Thank you for your response, Tim. The only way I could receive
a sample of the cartridge, which I admit intrigues me, would be if
it was completely inert and sent by mail. As of January 1, 2018, no
live ammunition can be delivered to anyone’s private address in
California; it has to go only to an FFL licensed-dealer, which is somewhat
strange since Federal Law does not require an FFL license for a shop that
sells only ammunition. I think it would be more trouble for you than its worth
I would be interested in ballistics of the cartridge, however. While loads
cannot be published on this forum (basically, handloading information is
prohibited on the forum, unless simply a very general discussion that does
NOT include “do it this way” instructions), the ballistics can be. There may
be others interested in MV, ME, or whatever you information of that type you
have generated. Thinking of it, muzzle energy is not particularly important
in an overall view of a target cartridge.
Thanks for your offer of a sample. It was very kind of you, even though I don’t
think I really need one. I don’t collect that category of ammunition, but I am
interested in data on any cartridge of any small arms category.
Is the shoulder the same as a .22 Pokey? Another picture from the net has a shorter bullet than Ammone pictures, and probably a higher shoulder. Can I presume you usually use the longer bullet?
Well, Tim, I’m much older and so is the memory… Looks like I’ll have to re-label mine. Still shooting silhouette? I just moved from the Washington State desert (Pasco, WA) to Des Moines. Neither state has silhouette closer than 150 miles anymore.
Mr Montgomery I’m happy to finally get the chance to talk to you about this round I have known about it since 2013. I love the idea of it as I am a small game hunter and backyard target shooter and even in 2018 22lr is extremely hard to find in my area. If you don’t mind me asking could I possibly have the dimensions of the .224 Montgomery as I can’t find any dimensions on your wildcat other then it’s a necked down 25acp casing to except .224 caliber projectiles. I have so many questions to ask you but I don’t want to overwhelm you with them all at once. Thank you in advance and have a wonderful day
Mike, Thanks for the post. The basics are OAL .610" to .615" with a neck length of about .125". Base dia. is about .275" to . 278" depending on the brand of the brass. I couldn’t tell you the angle of the shoulder. The case is semi-rimmed so this is why it works in a single shot TC Contender. I new going in this would be a involved process. I had to have a reamer made () and custom dies () and then a gunsmith who specializes in Contenders make the barrel ($). I had to make my own loading blocks to hold the tiny cases while handloading. I had to modify my case trimmer to reach the short cases and make my own shell holding collet or just load the cases without worrying about OAL. The whole process was a passion for me. My TC has my cartridge name on it as does the dies. With my wildcat I can duplicate 22 LR or 22 mag handgun performance using rifle bullets and can produce sub MOA groups routinely. A pound of powder goes a long way. My cartridge will basically not work in anything but a single shot. If you have any more questions or would like me to send you a sample then email me at firstname.lastname@example.org…Tim
Now you’ve got me curious… Why do you think it might not work in a semiautomatic currently chambered for .25 ACP? Are you thinking that O.A.L. might be too long for it to work?
Theron - the overall length of the Montgomery cartridge is
too long for any 6.35 mm (.25 Auto) magazine, and likely to
long for a loaded round, if firing it is no longer desired, to be
ejected from the barrel. Not even sure you could let it drop
out down the magazine well after removing the magazine from the
pistol. It would have to be single-loaded into the chamber to begin
with. Could a magazine-fed semi-auto pistol be designed for the
cartridge? Very likely yes, but to what end?
John, You are so right. Even if I loaded short Hornet round nose bullets to keep the OAL as short as a 25 acp so to maybe fit a 25 mag then so what. The performance out of a small pistol would be nothing to get excited about. My TC has a 12" barrel with a 1 in 12 twist and I can push 40 grain ballistic tips to 1800. Now that’s fun…Tim
Tim - Yes, that is impressive and would be fun! What’s good
in a proper twist in a 12" barrel can be quite useless in a two or
three inch barrel. Sounds like in a TC you’ve designed a really
"cool" cartridge, to use my grandson’s terminology. I admire you
guys who have the technical know how to accomplish things like
this. I have been an active shooter most of my life, and a collector
in both the firearms field and the cartridge field for over 55 years,
but my interest is mostly historical. I don’t have a technical bone in my
body, I’m afraid. I am really ignorant in that regard, and would not have
a clue how to figure out pressure curves, powder-capacity requirements,
etc., much less actually be able to chamber a barrel for a cartridge!
John, Thanks for the reply, Yes my project was labor intensive but one of the most fun things about this wildcat is that there is no other reloading data that is even close to this little cartridge except the 25ACP so everything I did was brand new territory. I started with max 25acp data using Bullseye and Red Dot and went up from there going to slower and slower burn rates till I eventually stuck a bullet in the barrel. The highest velocity was with AA#7 at over 4 grains but after 2 or 3 reloads the primer pockets started loosening up so I backed off of the burn rate chart to VV3N37 and settled on about 1650fps with 40s but I have tried bullets from 30 to 60 grains. 55 grains and up start to keyhole on paper. I have another project that I spent way too much time on also that I may tell you about if you are interested. I am pretty sure I have the worlds LOWEST velocity center fire cartridge. Speeds in the 200 fps range and visible bullet flight. Later Tim