.22LR headstamp ID


#1

Hi! Can you id this .22LR headstamp? I’ve tried to find info about this but with no luck.

-=Heavyball


#2

Sellier & Bellot


#3

Great, thanks! I suspected it to be S&B, but could not find any pictures to confirm. Do you know the possible year of production? Is it safe to shoot it?

-=Heavyball


#4

I have bought some 6 mm Flobert blanks for my flare gun about 5 years ago and they have the same headstamp.

I don’t know when S&B started to use this hds, but if the cartridges are in good conditions and have been stored in a dry place,they are still good for shooting


#5

Here’s something, can someone translate the discussion? The box is at least some 25 years old.

webforum.sk/viewtopic.php?t=7543




#6

This headstamp was used by Blanické strojírny Sellier & Bellot, s.p., Vlašim, Czechoslovakia (1989-92) and then by Sellier & Bellot, a.s., Vlašim, Czech Republic (1992-2014). It may have been in use a little earlier by ZVS-Blanické strojírny Sellier & Bellot, k.p. but I’m not sure.

The original headstamp design without the enclosing circle was registered by Zbrojovka Brno on May 23, 1946.


#7

Well according to Roger E. Huegel’s web page, that is based on Tony Dunn’s book, the headstamp has been used on .22 rimfire Post WWII, seemingly looks like starting in the 50’s.

Joe

22box-id.com/world/Czechoslovakia.pdf

Edit: link added


#8

Joe, that is correct for the headstamp variation not enclosed in a circle.


#9

Fede, yes my oversight. Well I have the Flu, thats my excuse,Ha-ha. Anyways, I have this box I pulled out of my collection and it has the headstamp in question. What date would you agree upon for this box?

Joe










Quick pictures, sorry for the quality.


#10

One more:


#11

Alex,

Recessed in a circular impression or impressed on a flat head?

Joe


#12

Joe, the hs are of the flat type.

The box has these markings:
Printed with the whole outer color (so related to the box design and printing itself): TPF 1123-39-59
So the 59 might be the design year.

Ink stamp (the lot number): 12-6 194 64
The 64 might be the production year.

If somebody knows for sure I will be happy to hear about.


#13

I would say that is very likely.

Joe


#14

Joe, your box reads “Made in Czechoslovakia” but instead of a “ČSSR” (Československá socialistická republika) shows an “M” proof mark, so I assume it would be a post-1990 box from the period when the company was designated Blanické strojírny Sellier & Bellot, s.p. (1989-92).


#15

Fede,

Help me to understand better. “M” proof mark?

I am fairly sure it is a 1970’s box design.

Joe


#16

On the black and white flap above the black “Neroxin” rectangle there is a mark somewhat like a silhouette target with an M in it.

This means that the ammunition was tested by the Prague proof house and complies with CIP ammunition rules. The CSSR was a CIP member just like the Czech Republic today is, which continues to use this symbol. (Slovakia now has its own.) I am sorry I do not know when this came into use.


#17

Joe, an earlier variation of this box issued during the 1970’s and 1980’s is identical except for having this “ČSSR, arrow & target” proof mark design at the upper left corner of both side ends.


#18

I still do not understand. So the “M” prof mark dates the box between 1989-92?

How can this be, as the “M” is still used today? I have newly purchased boxes that have C.I.P. next to the “M” prof mark, “Neroxin”, made in Czech Republic.

I must be missing some point. Please explain differently if you can.

Thanks,

Joe


#19

Simply, my point is this, the “M” prof mark was used on S&B boxes before 1993 and after when they became the Czech Republic. I do not see how it can be used to date a S&B box.

Joe


#20

Joe, sorry for not being clear enough. Here is an explanation:

  • The company designation between 1981 and 1989 was ZVS-Blanické strojírny Sellier & Bellot, k.p. and used the “ČSSR” proof mark in their .22 Long Rifle “Rex” boxes (cartridges headstamped “RE X” in two lines). In mid to late 1980’s this company launched a new line of rimfire cartridges, first in boxes having both the “ČSSR” and “M” proof marks, and finally only the “M”.
  • According to official sources the “ČSSR with arrow and target” proof mark was used between 1962 and 1984, and then replaced by “M” as in today’s use.
  • I can confirm that this particular headstamp was used by Blanické strojírny Sellier & Bellot, s.p., Vlašim, Czechoslovakia -a designation in use only between 1989 and 1992- and then by Sellier & Bellot, a.s., Vlašim, Czech Republic from 1992 until today.
  • This box is marked “Czechoslovakia”, a country that was dissolved into the independent states of Czech Republic and Slovakia on 1 January 1993.

Taking this into account your box would be post-1984 and pre-1993, but as I said above, I only have confirmed knowledge of this headstamp used after 1989. Maybe others can confirm if this headstamp was used some years earlier by ZVS - Blanické strojírny S&B.