25 Experimental

I bought a 25 caliber Experimental cartridge with the REM-UMC 25 REM headstamp. This cartridge is mentioned in HWS volume 1, the bullet is the 100gr. version. I don’t know how scarce these are. I don’t collect cartridges with cracked necks or heads, this one has a cracked neck. Is this worth keeping even though it has a problem.

There are some scarce and desirable rounds out there that are almost unobtainable without cracked necks, 8mm Murata and 6.5mm Daudeteau being good examples. Keep it until you get a better one.

Carolyn, have you bought it as a Frankford Arsenal experimental taken from a 1928 box? I’m asking you this because UMC and Remington-UMC produced a .25 Rremington cartridge loaded with a metal case pointed bullet of 101 gr. and it is often misidentified as a FA experimental.

Yes it was bought as the experimental, I was under the impression that the comerical round was loaded with a 117gr. bullet.

Carolyn–The .25 Rem. Autoloading was first loaded by U.M.C. in 1908. There are two Metal Cased bullets: 101gr. Pointed and 117gr. which I think was Round Nose FMJ. The 101gr. Pointed was still listed in the 1918 catalog, but was dropped from the 1923 catalog. The 117gr. FMJ was dropped about 1925.

Is there any other way to tell if it’s just a regular round or the experimental. The primer is nickel with a U underlined it weighs 253 grains which is correct for 101 grain bullet.

Carolyn, as far as I know an original FA 1928 round should have a Western Lubaloy 100 gr. GM jacketed bullet without cannelure (as made for the .250-3000 Savage), a flatened and unmarked nickel primer, and REM-UMC 25 REM headstamp. I measured only one specimen and its weight was 257.4 gr.

The bullet on this cartridge has the knurled cannelure so I have just a common cartridge.
thank You all for your help

I hate to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but I am right now looking at the one in my collection and the bullet is knurled. It, and a couple of spares I got, came right out of a full 1928 box that Paul Callow opened a few years back. I have also had original variations with CN bullets, but I can’t recall if they were knurled or not.

Considering the vigor with which the Remington Model 8 cycles I’d think crimped bullets would have been a really good idea. Jack

Jonny, I based my comment on visual inspection of a few confirmed rounds but I must admit that I’m not sure if the bullet could have a non visible cannelure. The overall lenght was correct and the mouth was not crimped.

I edited the total weight of my previous post because two numbers were inverted.

The downside, for a collector, is that the cartridges loaded with the WCC bullets can be reproduced with little effort. F.A. used Rem factory cases and WCC bullets and, essentially, handloaded the cartridges. It’s not too difficult to obtain the same ingredients today and do the same thing.

The early cartridges using F.A. bullets, on the other hand, can’t be readily reproduced. Originals should be easily identifiable.

You need to keep these things in mind when buying cartridges such as these.