.28 Cupfire Question

I have two different .28 Cupfire rounds. Round one is the normal .28 Flat Cup. My question is about Round 2 (on the right). It has a dished base, but the “Rim” is much wider. Is this the .28 Moffat Front Loader? Or is it just the standard .28 Dish Base.

Robert Butweiller sold four variations of the .28 front-loader in his Collectors Ammunition Vol 8, No 1 , lot # 24. Two of these had the flat ‘rims’ similar to yours. He called them ‘side-fire’, meaning that the hammer hit the outside edge of the cartridge case rather than the inner edge of the cup. One of these is a Moffat with a slight dish. The other he calls a Fitch van Vechten type - it looks very much like yours.

Guy-You say the Moffat has a slight dish. It is hard to measure the depth of the dish in mine, but it is aprox. o.075/2mm. I have never heard of a Fitch van Vechten type. Could you send me a scan of the entry from Butweiller’s Collectors Ammunition Vol 8, No 1 , lot # 24.

I said Buttweiler’s Moffat had a dished base; before seeing that, I had thought that they were all flat, as is the one pictured in Suydam’s US Cartridges and Their Handguns. Here’s the picture and description from Buttweiler’s Vol 8, No 1:

Guy–Thanks for the scan. It is clear that my unknown .28 is the Fitch Van Vechten type.