.280/30 Enfield Experimental (Sectioned)


#1

Three types of bullet used in the .280/30 Trials.

Type C : Copper jacket Pink Tip

Type B : Copper jacket Yellow Tip

S-12 : CNCS jacket Yellow Tip


#2

Armourer

I have only one representative sample of the 280/30. It has the yellow tip but is magnetic weak at the tip and then gets more magnetic toward the base. HS = RG 50 280/30.

Would I have a Type B? And is that (Type B) the correct way to catalog it?

Ray


#3

Ray,

My yellow tipped round has the same headstamp and I have it listed as ball with type B bullet.

Here’s a good reference site

home.casema.nl/j.j.h.roelofs/280_enfield.htm


#4

Hey, that’s a great site. Thanks for the link.

Who’s site is it?

I didn’t realize that the pre-NATO Brit cartridges were just as diverse as the US ones. Good for collecting on either side of the pond.

Ray


#5

Home page of that site home.casema.nl/j.j.h.roelofs/index.htm

I’m sure the owner posts on here as sir joost (but I could be wrong)


#6

Its a good site, I have just saved it and will have a good look at it later.

Ray Actually British ammo was incredibly diverse. They were experimenting all the time. If you manage to get hold of the book .303 inch by Labbett and Mead you will see what I mean.

Its sister volume British Small arms Ammunition 1864-1938 by Phil Labbett is even better.

I would seriously recommend both books.


#7

The Book on British Small Arms ammunition was by PETER LABBETT, not “Phil Labbett.” I know it was just a typing lapse, but I hasten to correct it because Peter was, in the world we cartridge collectors walk in, a giant. Not aonly a highly competent reseracher and knowledgeable collector and student of ammunition, but also just a darned good guy!


#8

Thanks for the compliments guys,

Yes, it’s my website… At this moment I’m working on the .303 pages, I still have a lot of cartridges to scan…

Joost.


#9

Interesting to see the types of propellents used, all of them being extruded IMR type, and how they appear to fill up most of the internal volume. Were the actual disassembled rounds filled to the points shown in the cutaways?


#10

The round loaded with the S12 CNCS bullet is the 7mm Mark 1z that was adopted unilaterally by Britain in August 1951. This had a slightly increased charge as shown that gave an MV of 2550 fps compared with the 2415 fps of the 140 grn bullet in the .280/30.

Subsequent to this when the BBC trails were held in the Yukon in early 1953 the 7mm Optimum (also called by the Belgians the 7mmS) consisted of the .280/30 case with the S12 bullet seated less deeply to an overall length of 2.6". Although this had the same ballistics as the 7mm 1z it was called “optimum” because the extra propellant space gave room for further development. It was not proceeded with after the Yukon trials.

So yes, they were that full of propellant.

Regards
TonyE


#11

What would be a green tipped .280/30?


#12

EOD,
I have two green tipped rounds and as far as I’m aware there are only the two green tipped variants -

.280/30 Ball type B (140 gn bullet)

.280/30 Drill (no primer, no holes or flutes around case and, if I remember correctly, the charge is replaced with coal dust)

Jim


#13

Jim, thanks a lot. So a round with empty primer pocket (anvil and flash holes intact), FMJ projectile and green tip will be a drill round if I understood correctly.

Hs is “RG 49 280/30”.


#14

EOD - the RG .280/30 with the green tip you have is found as both a ball round and the “coal dust” dummy as Jim says. This is the mild steel cored Type B bullet. The lead cored Type B has a yellow bullet tip.

There is also an earlier Kynoch made green tipped Type B with the headstamp “K 48 .280”.

Regards
TonyE


#15

Tony, thanks a lot!


#16

[quote=“TonyE”]EOD - the RG .280/30 with the green tip you have is found as both a ball round and the “coal dust” dummy as Jim says. This is the mild steel cored Type B bullet. The lead cored Type B has a yellow bullet tip.

There is also an earlier Kynoch made green tipped Type B with the headstamp “K 48 .280”.

Regards
TonyE[/quote]

OK, now I’m confused, again. Repeating my ealier post:

[i]I have only one representative sample of the 280/30. It has the yellow tip but is magnetic weak at the tip and then gets more magnetic toward the base. HS = RG 50 280/30.

Would I have a Type B? And is that (Type B) the correct way to catalog it?[/i]

So, what have I got here???

Ray


#17

Ray,

What colour is the jacket material of your yellow tipped round?

If it is copper coloured it’s the Brtish mild steel cored Type B (which I believe has a wood filler in it’s tip hence the variation in magnetism that you noted).

If it has a silver coloured cupro-nickel jacket it will be the Belgian 7mm S12 bullet…I think!

Jim


#18

Jim

It is Copper or GM colored jacket. So I guess I have the type “B” after all.

Thanks

Ray