280 Dubiel


#1

I got this box of “Super Speed 300 H&H Mag” headstamped rounds, on the box someone wrote “280 Dubel”. I’ll be adding visuals shortly, problems with my scanner. I can’t find any reference to “280 Dubel”. The seller said it was an old wildcat. So, did I waste another $3 on this box, or 280 Dubel really exists?


#2

Likely the labeling on the box was misspelled and should have read “280 Dubiel,” indicating a magnum wildcat developed in the 1930s by John Dubiel. Jack


#3

Here is the box, thanks, Jack.


#4

More info, courtesy of Dan Schmidt.


#5

Hi All,
I did not realize that Dubiel was from Ardmore, Texas.
Digging through my Hoffman information it turns out the Dubiel worked for Hoffman Arms.
I’ve always been a fan of Hoffman Arms rifles and cartridges (thanks to George Hoyem).

Sksvlad, do you have a profile photo of the .280 Dubiel cartridge and dimensions?

Thanks all!!


#6

Here is another photo from Dan Schmidt, I’ll try to do mine in daylight mañana.
image


#7

John Dubiel wasn’t from Ardmore, Okla., but rather from Poland. He emigrated to the U.S. before WW.I and worked for a time at Colt’s in Hartford, Conn., and then with Hoffman, first in Cleveland and later in Ardmore. After Hoffman folded Dubiel remained in Ardmore and did custom gun work until his death in 1937. Michael Petrov has written a piece on Dubiel–which I can’t turn up just now–that gives a good account on his career. I thought this article was on the web, but maybe I’ve run across it in a copy of Rifle magazine; just not sure. Jack


#8

Here is my profile.
image
image


#9

Thank you all for the excellent information and great photos.

Brian


#10

Donnelly’s “Handloader’s Manual of Cartridge Conversions” mentions it, and states that it is also called the 7mm DuBiel and the .276 DuBiel. As observed, it’s made from the .300 H&H case. Instructions for conversion are simply to run the .300 H&H case into the DuBiel FL die, trim, and fire-form in the DuBiel chamber. I don’t see that a separate fire-forming would be necessary if it’s going to be fired in the DuBiel chamber anyway. It’s basically a necked-down .300 H&H case with a shallower shoulder angle. It uses a .284 bullet, according to Donnelly.

It’s just another wildcat with no apparent purpose. I doubt that it would do anything a .270 Winchester (or .280 Remington) couldn’t do about as well, even though .270/.280 velocities are probably a little less than the DuBiel.


#11

Can we get some measurements of Dan Schmidt’s Dubiels? There appear to be two different ones, with different designations? I have one with 2.466 inch case that came with “.276 Dubiel” designation. It was made from a WESTERN 276 H&H MAGNUM case.

Attu


#12

Yes, when I get home, plowed out, and time!
Dan


#13

For the .280 and .276 Dubiel’s in the picture-

The one marked 280 Cal. I80 Gr. Bullet
headstamp is: WESTERN .300 H&H MAGNUM no primer, with flash hole
rim .529 (13.44mm) (got batteries for the caliper, Brad:)
head .510 (12.95)
belt .529 (13.44)
shoulder .451 (11.45)
shoulder height 2.095 (53.11)
mouth .314 (8.03)
bullet .287 (7.30)
case length 2.86 (72.60)
over all length 3.673 (93.32) copper jacket HP

The one marked Cal . 270 with 170 Gr Bul
headstamp is: WESTERN .275 H&H MAGNUM no primer, with flash hole
rim .529 (13.44mm)
head .510 (12.96)
belt .530 (13.45)
shoulder .414 (11.49)
shoulder height 1.965 (49.92)
mouth .313 (7.96)
bullet .2835 (7.21)
case length 2.512 (63.81)
over all length 3.343 (84.89) copper jacket HP

The other two dummies went to a friend.
My loaded rounds, (not pictured), have the same headstamps. All dimensions are within .001, except case length. (.005).
The .280 over all length is 3.606, with copper jacket HP.
The .276 over all is 3.345, with a copper jacket lead soft point.
They have round nickel primers.

Now I can file your e-mail Brian!
Dan


#14

Thank you Dan!
The dimensions fill the hole in my data now.
Just 10,000 more to go (smile).

Brian


#15

brief resurrection of an older thread. I stumbled across the thread seaching for info on Albert J.E. Shay he co-authored a book with Stebbins & Hammond titled Pistols; A Modern Encyclopedia. I have several boxes of custom swaged bullets and loaded rounds for a double rifle I own and some correspondence from him. He had a gun shop in Wurtsboro , NY(Sullivan County) and was a wildcat cartridge tinkerer and wrote articles once in a while for shooting publications.