.293/230 Morris?


It looks like .293/230 Morris but they have this steel disc over the rim.
Have you ever seen this cartridge?

Disk diameter is 16,5mm (.650")


I don’t know, I hope this is one for TonyE. Definitely Morriis but beyond that I am lost.


If the steel rim is the same diameter as a .450/577 case rim, then it is a
Subcalibre round for the Martini Henry .450 Rifle. ( insert barrel without having to change extractor.)

otherwise, a similar subcal. device for another Rifle, to utilise the original Extractor.


Regards,Doc AV


.455 Kynoch blank cases are known which have a similar brass washer under the rim, and it it thought these are movie blanks, used in an adapter of some kind for either a weapon or devise. With bullets, certainly not for movies. I would guess to be used is some kind of sub-caliber in the Martini Henry or Snider rifle for indoor shooting. HOWEVER that is just a guess based upon what looks like MH or Snider steel rims being used, check the diameter? and the Morris being a popular indoor round for M.H. shooters.

edited for spelling & to ask Doc AV what he knows about the above mentioned .455 blanks?


The word subcalibre certainly springs to mind. Although why they would use live ammunition when blanks were available leaves me at a bit of a loss. These would not produce the bang nor the smoke needed for those appllications.

An interesting one. .650" is too big for .303 or .455 but would fit the .450 Musket no 2 which was the civilian version of the Martini rifle and appears to get used in a a lot of movies as a substitute for the .577/ .450 possibly because it was easier to obtain at some time in the past.(???)

I think one of the companies that supplies the movie industry with firearms has a load of martinis with .450 Musket no 2 chambering. Possibly they have had them for a very long time.
There must have been a time around the 1920s (maybe) when these rifles would have been easy to pick up for peanuts. Maybe they have had them that long.


Thank you very much for helping.


The .450 no2 musket calibre is an oddity. Lots of rifles were sold in the civilian market in the days when .450/577 ammunition was unobtainable to the general public ( because of restrictions) However, today they have vanished. To see a rifle on an auction site is as rare as rare can be. Where did they all go? Converted to shotguns maybe?


Hola Martin,

Here you have two different patents related to your specimen:

British Patent No. 1773 dated april, 25 1881 assigned to Richard Morris.

British Patent No. 2111 dated april, 26 1883 assigned to Richard Morris.

I have never seen or read of any examples made according to this second patent.


Hola Fede,
wellcome back jajaja.
Thank you very much for helping!!!
Were are those pictures from?
If you want one just let me know.