3,15-лин. (8-мм) патрон Роговцева


#1

Can anyone help. What is this word “Роговцева.?”


#2

Russian officer, cartridge constructor


#3

Thank you hooke1978. You have confirmed what I found out in the meantime. “Роговцева” is the last name of the Russian officer that developed this Russian 8mm Cartridge based on the French 8mm Lebel. Colonel Rogovtsev (Роговцева). So therefore, the cartridge is named after him: 3,15-lin. (8 mm) Rogovtsev cartridge.


#4

This is incorrect! The 8mm Rogovtsev (not Rogovtseva!!!) is a necked down 4.2-line (10.67x57R) Berdan case and is not related to Lebel.


#5

#6

WOW!!! EOD, let me be the first to say “I stand corrected.” And, thank you very much indeed. Actually, my first impression was, that the 8mm Rogovtsev Cartridge was based on the concept of the 8mm Lebel. But ,now you got me wondering if it was developed before or at the same time as the Lebel and developed independent of the Lebel. Maybe so. Where are you getting “(not Rogovtseva)”, I spelled it Rogovtsev; are you referring to the cyrillic spelling? You referring to the “a” at the end?


#7

The “A” at the ending of the personal name indicates the name is used in the possessive sense, i.e. “Rogovtsev’s cartridge”. Jack


#8

George, Jack explained the additional “a”.

The 8x57R Rogovtsev I know of is headstamped 1888.
But as we know the design of Nagant succeded later as it was the 8x54R Nagant or Lee-Nagant cartridge which was adapted (7.62x54R M1891) to the Russian needs.
Actually I am still interested to learn about the original 8x54R cartridge but it seems little is out there. Like who made the original cartridges, factory drawings etc…


#9

EOD, How I learned about the 8mm Rogovtsev Cartridge was in a new book I just got from Russia, 3-ЛН ВИНТОВКА МОСИНА by R.N. Chumak (The 3-Line Rifle Mosin). Just published this year. It is massive 526 pages. A lot of detail on the development of the Mosin Nagant and the prototypes, great pictures. This cartridge is one of the things covered in the book and this is how I learned about its existence today. But, I could not figure out the Russian word “Роговцева.” It took me a long time because the cyrillic caption was in script, and I always have a lot of trouble with Russian cyrillic script. Goggle translate kept coming back with the word “horn.” Finally, I figured out it was a Russian officers last name. This has been a rare afternoon; thank you hook1978, EOD, and Jack. George


#10

George, we are all learning every day.
This happens when a translation program tries to translate a family name which has a part of a noun.

Chumak’s book came out in 2007.
But be carefull, not everything in there is correct.


#11

Anyone has the actual headstamp? Or at least what the headstamp says?


#12

Vlad it was a regular Berdan hs.


#13

He is talking about the new book, published about a month ago. It is dedicated to the development and adoption of the Russian M1891 rifle, and has a whole chapter about ammunition
here it is: http://atlant-tpg.ru/3-ln_vintovka_mosina_istoriya_sozdaniya%20i_prinyatiya_na_vooruzhenie_russkoj_armii.html


#14

Max, thanks a lot!
Wow, I see there they are showing a factory drawing of the projectile jacket of the 8mm Rogovtsev.

Do you happen to know if the case is also shown in detail?


#15

EOD, why don’t you ask me about the case, I got the book. And, Yes, on page 337 there does appear to be a detailed drawing of the case. I appreciate mpopenker pointing out to you that there is a new book. I may not know cyrillic that well, but I can sure tell the difference between “2007” and “2017” publication date.


#16

George, how and where did you get Chumak’s book?


#17

I got it from Ilia Shapiro in Denver, I can send you his address and telephone if you send me an email. George


#18


#19

George, thanks for showing!

Is there maybe anybody who could do a high res scan of the case drawing and the bullet drawing and supply us with?


#20

Dear EOD, good question. I wanted to do a scan, but the book is massive. It would certainly be hard to do on my scanner. One would need an “industrial size” scanner. But, I am like you, I wish I could do a better scan for you. In fact, If I accidentally dropped the book and it fell on my foot, I would probably break a bone.