30-06 Box Question REM UMC


#1

Anyone out there have an idea what rounds went with this box? It came to me empty.

Thanks,
Dave


.30-06 from RA
#2

I could be wrong, but I believe that Cal…300 was the designation for British contract rounds.


#3

Hey John,

Yes, correct. I should have been more specific on my question. I was wondering what 30-06 round was contained in this Remington box meant for export to England? If I had to guess, I would say R A 40 with ring crimped primer, brass case and gmcs projectile. I was wondering why it was designated “Practive use Only”.

Thanks,
Dave


#4

The “Cal .300z” designation was for .30 M1906 ammo supplied to Britain with early Purchase and then Lend Lease Aircraft with ANM2 Brownings in .30 calibre.
The contract was a Remington one, 1940 to 43, and the ammunition was to AN-M2 specs ( Aircraft use, with the “Ring” channel in the head (developed 1918, for aircraft use; it aids in sealing primer cup on Firing, a French Invention, even though the cup is also crimped in by three or four stab crimps as well.)

After some initial use in the air, problems were encountered ( Just as had been found with Winchester .303 on L-L) and the ammo was relegated to RAF Ground use ( Rifle–M17) and MGs Brownings, used to train Airgunners and Armourers on the Ground…eventually all this ammo went to the Home Guard, which had a lot more M17 and M1917A1 guns.

Since this is a factory label, it was obviously applied because the cartridges failed “proof” for reliability and accuracy before leaving the factory, and so were downgraded to “Practice Only” even before reaching Britain. British reduction of service was noted by an Overstamp on the boxes.
American Ammo makers never reached the British levels of QA required for Air-service use ( either in WW I or WW II).

A Lot of this 1940-43 ammo was then dumped onto Allies being equipped by both US and British gov’ts…I have samples of 1940 RA .300 Z in Cotton Browning Belts from Indonesia ( Dutch Postwar Issue for BMGs).

Thank goodness a lot of this ammo is at the bottom of the Atlantic…courtesy the U-Boats. Having a gun jam in mid-flight from poor ammo is tantmount to getting shot by the enemy. Other problems found with this ammo, besides Primer unreliability, was Body splitting (Not your “neck split”) with massive gas release, also not a good thing for an MG at VHR of Fire. Poor Case drawing practice. Head splitting, combined with the body split, was not uncommon as well.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#5

Hi Dave,

again, an interesting 30-06 item.
here is a similar box from my collection

There is a stamp on the back of the box with:
16 OCT 1942
LOT 26
The box came with one cartridge with double primer crimp and H/S R A 41.

I will be attending SLICS next year, so if you have no home for this one, feel free to bring it with you [color=#FF0000]:o)[/color]
cheers
René


#6

It is odd that two questions should turn up on Remington British contract ammunition on the same day (This plus the one of .50 BMG), especially as I have just sent Chris P an article for the Journal on British purchases in America prior to Lend Lease.(with some picture help from Rene, the Flying Dutchman)

I agree that this is an early version of the box as it uses “CAL .30” rather than the British designation of “CAL .300”, so the most likey headstamp would have been “R A 40”.

Regards
TonyE


#7

I thought the contract called for Cal .30 Ball M2, rather than Cal .30 M1906?

Ray


#8

I thought the contract called for Cal .30 Ball M2, rather than Cal .30 M1906?

Ray[/quote]

correct Ray, that’s probably a typo . . .

René


#9

Thank you all for the great info.

I also have one with the red rejected stamp on it as Doc mentions. That one has a bunch of ammo in it. I am not home right now, so I can’t post a picture. If anyone wants to see a scan of it let me know and I can do it this weekend.

If this ammo was poor why weren’t the American troops plagued with problems? I don’t recall hearing bad things about US ammo in use by US troops.

Thanks again!
Dave