30-06 bronze tipped cartridge


#1

Hello again, I have a question for the knowledgeable members. I am reading the book “Alaska’s Wolf Man” by Jim Reardon. This is the life story of a very famous Alaskan named Frank Glaser. He is well known and often written about. This book is actually written by Frank and compiled by Reardon. Frank shot a lot of different cartridges and was well versed with guns and ammo. He states in several instances that he shot 145 grain bronze tipped ammo. Does anyone know who produced this load? The time frame is the early 1920’s. I don’t think it was a typo as he stated he also had 150 grain ammo. I have noticed there is some gun errors made in his accounts. Thanks


#2

The Remington Bronze Point (originally called the Brass Point) was one of several patented hunting bullets from the pre-WW2 years. Only a few of them survived into the 1950s, the Bronze Point being one.

See my article in JOURNAL #445.

Ray


#3

Remchester,

Ray’s article is a “must read” on the subject. The sectioned examples pictured tell it all.

Regarding the bullet weights, Remington in the 1920’s made the “Bronze Pointed Expanding” loads in both 150gr. and 180gr. for the .30-06. United States Cartridge Co. was competing with a 145gr. “Hollow Copper Point” around then. I would guess that could very well be the cartridge in question.

Ray’s article has a nice sectioned example of the U.S.C.Co. product shown.

Dave


#4

Thanks for the help. I have always admired Ray’s work. I should have mentioned I am fairly familiar with Remington’s bronze points and a few of the umbrella points but had never heard of the unusual 145 grain bullets. Seems Frank may have been using US ammunition. I will check out Ray’s article. I have always enjoyed the sectioned bullets and cases. I study terminal ballistics and have collected nearly 200 bullets recovered from game.


#5

I would submit that the 7.62 x 54mm Russian cartridge was loaded with a 145 gr. Bronze Point by Remington…

Randy


#6

All of the other patented bullets of that time had copper tips. But, I suppose someone could have called them bronze. The U.S.C. Co. HCP bullet does look a lot like the bronze point and some collectors still get them confused to this day.

Another interesting thing is that the bronze point of that time had a CN bullet and the tip was blackened (first cartridge in my photo).

Randy’s comment adds a little more to the mystery. Does Reardon’s account mention the caliber?

And if that’s not enough to chew on, there were European and UK bullets that the had the same features as the U.S. bullets.

Ray


#7

Yes Ray the caliber was 30-06 though he used many other rifles and calibers including 220 Swift which he used on all hooved animals in Alaska including moose. He even used the Swift on grizzly bears. As mentioned he got gun details wrong. He says he bought a Winchester rifle and used it exclusively for years, ten years before the rifle was first produced. His accounts of specifically using the 30-06 and 145 grain bronze tipped bullets to shoot 13 grizzly bears. In the same sentence he mentioned he also had 150, 180 and 220 grain ammo on hand.


#8

I don’t know exactly when Remington switched from the CN/black tip to the GM/bronze tip. But if he was using the early cartridges it would seem odd that he would call them bronze tipped bullets. But, I have seen boxes of the early cartridges that were labeled as Bronze Point Expanding, so . . .

Which brings me to a question for Remington box collectors. Has anyone seen an early box with the label “Brass Point Expanding”? I’ve never seen one.

Ray


#9

Ray, are you sure that the early cartridge was called “Brass Point Expanding”? I’m asking because in a March 1921 article describing tests carried in 1920 at the Ordnance Test Station, Daytona Beach, Florida, this new bullet is called “Bronze Point”. Most interesting is that it is also described as having a “point dipped into gold paint for a quarter inch or so”.

Also, in the first advertisement published in May 1922 it is designated “Bronze Point Expanding”:

Regarding the CN/blackened tip vs. the GM/bronze tip, there is also a difference in their internal construction, as the early model has a cavity below the bronze wedge. Considering its long production, maybe there are more construction variations in existence.

Regards,

Fede


#10

Fede

When I was doing research for my article, I found at least 2 references to “Brass Point Expanding” bullets. They were in magazine articles such as the old Hunter/Trader/Trapper magazines that were popular in the 1920s and 1930s. But, as I said, I never found a box with that label on it. It would be interesting if someone could do a laboratory analysis of the early types to see exactly what alloy they were made of. I always thought that the sales people at Remington may have changed the name because “Bronze” sounds so much stronger and manly than “Brass”.

Yes, I noticed the different construction as the bullet changed from CN to GM. In addition to the cavity, I found some where the bronze wedge was cannelured to help hold it place. The later bronze wedges were smooth.

I have never seen or heard of any being dipped in gold paint.

In 30-06 caliber I have seen only the 150 grain and 180 grain bullets. The 150 grain often had a second cannelure to identify it.

Those old bullets, in their many varieties, are interesting. Not just the Bronze Points, but the Umbrella Points, HCPs, Protective Points, and Silver Tips as well. Add the other types, such as the bonded, belted, and hollow points, and a collector could make them a specialty on its own.

Ray


#11

Winchester 7.62 Russian with 145-gr hollow copper points: