.30-06 PKS headstamp


#1

This is being sold in M19A1 style metal ammunition boxes, four per USGI style wirebound crate. Brass cases, boxer primed, 150 grain M2 ball style projectile, flat base and magnetic. Loaded with 53.3 grains of tubular powder. M1 links are marked “MBZ” - Murik & Ball Zeist of the Netherlands I would guess. Wonder who actually made this ammo. Yes this was also imported by the same importer out of England as the .303’ clandestine ammo I posted. Way too nice to be Pakistani. All headstamps are perfect. Tracers were removed as per 1968 GCA.

Joe







#2

[quote=“xjda68”] . . .Tracers were removed as per 1968 GCA.

Joe[/quote]

Joe

In what way does GCA restrict tracer ammunition? I thought it only applied to AP?

Ray


#3

Ray, I know all my Form 6 import licenses have a stamp that prohibit the import of AP pistol ammo, but also another one that prohibits the import of any “ammunition or ammunition components if they contain a tracer or incendiary elements”.

No law is cited on thees stamps.

Cheers,
Lew


#4

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) generally prohibits the importation of … armor-piercing, tracer, or incendiary ammunition unless you are importing for sale or distribution to a US government entity. Unless you have special congressional permission like the “CMP” to import for resale on “non profit” exemption purposes as they are a registered NOT for profit organization.

atf.gov/files/firearms/guide … mplete.pdf

Joe


#5

Lew

Interesting. Amendments to the 86 GCA prohibit the import and sale of AP pistol (and some AP rifle) but i am not aware of an amendment that prohibits Tracer.

Anyone know where to find the actual language?

Ray

Joe - You beat me to it. But that link is 105 pages long. Can you narrow it down for me?

Ray


#6

In the ATF Guidebook - Importation & Verification of Firearms, Ammunition, and Implements of War , located here:
http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/guides/importation-verification/download/firearms-imporation-verification-guidebook–complete.pdf

on page 13 “Import Requirements for Firearms & Ammunition” there is the following:

Ammunition

  • Sporting ammunition is all ammunition EXCEPT, tracer or incendiary rounds, ammunition for destructive devices, less than lethal (i.e., rubber projectiles) and armor piercing ammunition as defined in18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(17)and 27 CFR § 478.11 -

This is referring to what ammunition may be imported by a person holding a typical FFL license (Type 08) for commercial importation. It is possible to import the restricted types mentioned, but that would have to be an FFL-11.

This is how we wind up finding things like FN manufactured L191 API projectiles in 5.7x28mm ammo loaded by Winchester, because Winchester would certainly have an FFL-11 and would have imported these to load under contract from FN in the past, which were then distributed, and then surplussed or overrun to somebody who wound up putting them on Gunbroker for $400 a box or whatever. This is legal because re-sale of this sort is fine at any level since the projectile core is not made “entirely of a hardened metal” as laid out in the 1986 law.

I am not sure however, how to explain all of the 1970’s era Israeli 9mm tracers which were surplussed out and imported into the country, other than the feds could not read Hebrew, or just didn’t notice?


#7

If AP was always banned from import, why were the amendments to ban 7.62 MM AP and 5.54x39 AP necessary?


#8

Joe,

that is a great can.
Till now the headstamp PKS is unknown. There is a similar one with headstamp PKB see below

But your can and esp- the links put things in a different perspective.
I know there was an order for Pakistan in 67 which was split between AI, NWM and DAG
Maybe and just maybe, some lots were produced with a special headstamp for Pakistan.
Below is a headstamp of a 1967 NWM cartridge and allthough a different letter style is used,
all three cartridges show similarities.

Maybe one of our Dutch readers has more info on this ?? I will also contact some directly.

Till now only the Ball cartridge is (was) known, I have never seen a tracer with PKS or PKB headstamp.
Can you please put away some of these for me

Thanks
René


#9

Ray - Probably because like with the 7.62 x 39, to have a short-barrel model that was legal, some idiot company or gunsmith made a (some) firearm(s) in pistol form - that is, short barrel, no buttstock - to sell to the Walter Mitty part of the shooting public. If a licensed manufacturer does that, it does not come under the law of “manufacturing a pistol from a rifle,” which is part or all of the thing that prohibits cutting the butt part of the stock off, and shortening the barrel way down. It is a matter of licensing. It is illegal for a private, unlicensed person to do that, but if a company with a manufacturer’s license makes a new gun that way and designates it as a pistol, then it is legal under Federal law. Just a sample of the idiocy of gun laws in general. My disdain for that type of firearm is because they are basically good for nothing in rifle calibers, satisfying only the urge to have a SMG to play with, unpleasant to fire, and too large to be of any real use for civilian self-defense.(CCW). The only thing sillier than those rifle-caliber SMG look-alikes is the half-law that prohibits them if not made or converted by a licensed manufacturer, and the laws that cause normal rifle ammunition to all of a sudden be declared a pistol cartridge because of a few hybrid guns (possible a single specimen, even). Laws that prohibit guns on the basis of barrel length, so-called “assault weapons” features like flash hiders, bayonet lugs, or pistol grips, or simply because of their color or what they look like, are childish at best, the product of lawmakers with diminished intellect and a psychotic fear of firearms. I would not attempt to describe my feelings towards those that pass laws that declare rifle cartridges to be pistol ammunition because of a few guns in that caliber. I would have to enter the realm of obscene language.


#10

Joe, regarding the manufacturer of the links, I have noted that for some reason it is spelled wrong in almost every source in the internet -most discussing M1 rifle clips- and also in some cartridge references. For example, you can find it as: “Mourek & Ball, Zeist”, “Mourik & Ball, Zeist”, “Murik & Ball Zeist” and “Maurik & Bal, Zeist”.

The correct designation is N.V. Plaatmetaalindustrie van Mouwerik & Bal and it was located in de la Reylaan 34, Zeist, Netherlands.

Regards,

Fede


#11

Not that it has to be correct but the only manufacturer ID for “OMS” (the belt box) I have found is:
“OUTILLAGE MECANIQUE SPECIALISE”, PARIS.

Has anybody seen fully French marked belt boxes with this manufacturer on?


#12

René,

Yes I already compared to my Nederland Wapen rounds and definite similarities. I was also thinking DAG for the extra fine bunting and as they do a similar annulus crimp including color, but I do not know if they would do boxer primed. NWM does do boxer primed.

How many rounds linked do you want me to add to your pile of goodies?

joe

email sent.

Addition, the NWM round René posted I have pulled a duplicate of and it is a 151 grain flat base M2 magnetic ball style projectile, 52 grains of ball powder and boxer primed. One difference is the NWM has a smooth cut cannelure not knurled like the PKS. The bunter is also more like DAG would do, but do they do boxer priming, I do not know if they would…

Picture top and bottom right headstamps are the tracers.




#13

The correct designation is N.V. Plaatmetaalindustrie van Mouwerik & Bal and it was located in de la Reylaan 34, Zeist, Netherlands.

Regards,

Fede[/quote]

Fede,

Thank you. I have added this information to my list.

joe


#14

[quote=“EOD”]Not that it has to be correct but the only manufacturer ID for “OMS” (the belt box) I have found is:
“OUTILLAGE MECANIQUE SPECIALISE”, PARIS.

Has anybody seen fully French marked belt boxes with this manufacturer on?[/quote]

Alex, thanks!

I also found the other day this company that does metal stampings and such.

O M S Paslanmaz Mutfak Araclari Sanayi Ve Ticaret Ltd Sti
4 Istiklal Mahallesi
Istanbul (Europe), , Turkey
Phone: (212) 689-0523

Joe


#15

Some pictures of the crate.

Joe






#16

Look what was found after delinking 10’s of thousands of rounds. One of the PKS M25 tracers! GMCS.

joe




#17

Joe,

Very nice find! Congrats!

Thanks for posting info and pictures.

Brian


#18

That PKS Hst looks very similar with italian .308 Hst of the same time. The crimping and green lacquer too. Just a guess!


#19

jeffcy67,

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I have already been there. The 7.62x52 SMI rounds of the time period have similar primer crimp, primer and sealant, but the bunting is slightly finer and the numbers are of a different font style. I have contemplated SMI a bit for the fine bunting, but the rolled cannelure on their projectiles is not pronounced enough. They do boxer priming, but the primers they use on some SMI 30-06 are domed, not flat and the primer sealant color is wrong on the 30-06. Rene points out that there was a contract for Pakistan in 76 which was split between AI, NWM and DAG. I feel Netherlands may be of origin here, as the headstamp layout, projectile, inner casing structure and primer along with crimp style is very convincing, not to mention Mouwerik & Bal links. I am still convinced NWM unless SMI made the brass and changed there font style. This is truly a hard one to say definitively. I have info from a CIA contractor that had done a bit of ammunition evaluation procurement for them, that this same ammo showed up in Australia in the late 60’s, as he has a sample he kept. It was brought by the Indonesian army as they were buying Ausi tanks that they insisted were outfitted with .30 cal instead of 7.62. They were told they would need to bring their own ammunition for testing and this is what they brought. Now I have heard Dutch and Indonesian connections are tight, so take that last tidbit of info for what it is worth. Might have been made for the Pakistanians, but never made it there or not all was purchased or shipped to them. I do know Stacy of PW arms imported all this out of the UK. The STORY is of course this was an old CIA hold that was no longer warranted. How it got released for sale to an importer is pure speculation. The .303" no headstamp ammo I posted elsewhere was also bought the same time by the importer mentioned and was confirmed by retired CIA officer Howard Hart who was in part responsible this POF made ammunition was delivered to the Mujahedeen. Funny how it also wound up in a UK warehouse collecting dust. I think I sent Howard 5 boxes.

joe


#20

Joe, I believe that these rounds were made in Italy by SMI. If you compare these PKS cartridges with those headstamp SMI 967 you will notice that both ball and tracer loadings have seemingly identical characteristics (bullet, tubular powder, primer cup, circular primer crimp, brass appearance). Also, the font size, spacing and centering seems to be the same. The primer sealant of these SMI cartridges tend to vary in colour from dark to bright green. Regards, Fede.


Pictures by Joe and René.