30-06 SUPER - X with folded bullet tip


#1

30-06 SUPER - X with folded bullet tip. Does this round look factory? I do not recognize this projectile. Cartridge weight is 392 grains. That equates to around a 140 - 150 grain bullet depending on powder charge.

Joe


#2

Hi Joe,

I have never seen this load on a SUPER-X case before.
It seems that the bullet is too well made to be done privately.
Maybe it is a reload.

Does anybody else know what kind of bullet (Brand / type) this is ?

René


#3

I see no signs of a reload, but it could always be loading in a SUPER-X factory primed case, as there is such.

Joe


#4

There doesn’t appear to be any evidence of a crimp at the case mouth. I would think a factory load would have a crimp of some sort??


#5

I do not know percentage wise, but there are lots of factory rounds I have seen no case mouth crimp on. Segmented crimps are most common and then roll crimps second, but plenty with no crimp at all. No crimp is mostly for MATCH loadings and some limited run specialty.

Joe


#6

Possibly a Winchester Positive Expanding Point? I am only aware of it in .25 caliber but it is possible it was produced in others. Current production seems to be only in .25-06 and .25 WSSM, and I seem to recall seeing it in .257 Roberts but per Winchesters website it is not currently available in .257 Roberts. This example is a .25-06 Rem. purchased in 2007.

P.S. any advice on extremely close up photos would be appreciated, this is the best i could do.


#7


#8

Thanks Ken.


#9

You are quite welcome I hope it is helpful.
Ken


#10

The mouth on my example is not crimped either as Sportclay points out. I have seen this on a few factory rounds, but not very often. Makes me wonder if it was an experimental that was never put into production.


#11

Looks like Winchester introduced the 25-06 in 1972 and it was also loaded in the PEP loading. They loaded then the 25-06 PEP loading until discontinuing it in 2006. I cannot find mention of it loaded into the 30-06 casing in there catalogs. I measured my projectile to be sure and it is 0.308" diameter.


#12

The oldest Winchester ammunition catalog I have is 1993 and as you say it only lists .25-06 PEP, with newer catalogs including .25WSSM PEP loadings. Your theory of an experiment never put into production seems likely as it appears to have never been produced in anything other than .257" projectiles. As your projectile does not appear to have a cannelure it appears relatively early, current PEP projectiles do have a cannelure (photo below), but I found a brief article in The Gun Digest of 1972 by Ken Waters who mentions the PEP as being available in 90gr. and 120gr. without a cannelure. I have not yet found mention of when it was added, but I am new to cartridge collecting and research so I am still doing a lot of “poke and hope” searching for reliable sources of info. Also, are you sure it was discontinued in 2006? I checked 2006,7, and 8 Winchester ammunition catalogs that I have and all list .25-06 and .25 WSSM PEP loadings, as does the current Winchester ammunition website.

Ken


#13

Joe
It looks like a match bullet that was loaded into cases in the 50’s or 60’s.


#14

Ken,

The 25-06 with a PEP projectile I see no listing in the Winchester 2006, 2007, 2008 or 2009 catalog, however it does show up again in the 2011 ammunition catalog. I do not have a 2010 catalog. I do find it listed on there current web page. So I guess it is still around.

Joe


#15

Hey Joe. I am not to keen on Match bullets. Do you possibly have a maker of a Match bullet that looks like this?

Joe


#16

Very curious, as we appear to have contradictory catalogs. Here is the 2006 catalog page with the PEP listing and cover. I am happy to scan my 2007 and 2008 catalogs if you would like.

Ken



#17

Ken,

No, you are correct. I was looking at the 2006 LE ammo catalog like a dumb-dumb. It is listed in the 2006 Product Guide catalog, but I do not find it in the 2007 thru 2009 catalogs.

Joe


#18

No problem. I am happy to upload my 07 and 08 product guide catalogs if you would like. Are you aware of a difference between the product guide and catalog? Are you referring to a dealers direct order catalog or something similar, or am I reading more into this distinction than I should?

Ken


#19

I suppose I do not know the difference. It says “2007 Product Guide” and the other one says “2008 Product Guide”. Please upload what you have.

Joe


#20

That is exactly what mine say, so they should be the same. I didn’t know if you had a dealers direct buy catalog or something similar. Unfortunately I do not have anything more recent than 2008.

2007:


2008: